Fermentation Temp

[mainshipfred]

There is no advantage to fermenting a white kit at a low temperature. The purpose of low temperature fermentation for whites is to preserve delicate florals and other notes. These are destroyed at higher temps. Kits are pasteurized at 160°, so the delicate fragrances are destroyed in that process. If you're making white wines from grapes, you can preserve these aromas if you pick the grapes when cold and maintain a cold temperature throughout the entire process.
The following is from winemakermag.com, article by Tim Vandergritt

While it’s true that some white wines benefit from cool fermentation, that’s a very small percentage of wines that are made. The idea behind keeping it cool is that the very most delicate and volatile aromas (from very low-weight molecular compounds) which contribute that top 1% of the aromatic nose of a wine can be blown off of a fermentation that is too vigorous or too warm. But this only applies to grapes that have been picked cold, transported cold, crushed cold, and kept cold at every single step of the way. Let it warm up for even a short time and those low-weight molecular compounds are simply gone.

Consider a wine kit for a moment. The fruit is picked cold, of course: hot grapes oxidize quickly and the juice spoils. Pressed cold, sure — nobody heats a press or puts it anywhere but in the shade. Also pumped, transported and blended cold, as this keeps down spoilage at every step of the way. But at some point the juice is going to go through a pasteurizer and hit 160 °F (75 °C) before being cooled back down for packaging. You can see where this breaks down the whole cold-alla-time ideal.
https://winemakermag.com/article/813-maintaining-fermentation-temperatures-wine-kits

Being as new as I am to this I feel a little funny with this response, but here goes:
Tim Vandergritt, although I am not questioning his intregrity, is an advocate of kit wine making. All kit directions push you to bottle before it's time and take all precautions to assure the beginning winemaker a successful fermentation. If you read through the article almost all reference is made toward kits. He also references not hydrating the yeast because you might not do it properly which is another reference to a new winemaker. Grape wines aren't proceessed like kit juice leading to his cold fermentation is not advantageous comments as well as this slows down the process and goes back to bottling before it's time. It's hard for me to imagine a winery would go through the expense of buying chilled stainless steel fermentation tanks if there wasn't a benefit fermenting whites at a cooler temperature.

 

[Johnd]

Being as new as I am to this I feel a little funny with this response, but here goes:
Tim Vandergritt, although I am not questioning his intregrity, is an advocate of kit wine making. All kit directions push you to bottle before it's time and take all precautions to assure the beginning winemaker a successful fermentation. If you read through the article almost all reference is made toward kits. He also references not hydrating the yeast because you might not do it properly which is another reference to a new winemaker. Grape wines aren't proceessed like kit juice leading to his cold fermentation is not advantageous comments as well as this slows down the process and goes back to bottling before it's time. It's hard for me to imagine a winery would go through the expense of buying chilled stainless steel fermentation tanks if there wasn't a benefit fermenting whites at a cooler temperature.

The article is ONLY addressing kits, not grape wines, and wineries don’t make their wines from kits, hence the temperature control. The point that both the author and @bstnh1 are pointing out, is that the delicate flavors / aromas of a kit are blown off, by heating during the manufacturing process, before you ever get your kit, so there’s no reason to ferment cool.

Personally, I like a cool ferment for whites, be it from kit or grapes, and believe (with no empirical evidence, only my own taste) that it produces a better product.

 

[tjgaul]

There is no advantage to fermenting a white kit at a low temperature. The purpose of low temperature fermentation for whites is to preserve delicate florals and other notes. These are destroyed at higher temps. Kits are pasteurized at 160°, so the delicate fragrances are destroyed in that process.

I'm sure that Tim V is making a good point, but I would argue the "no advantage" theory. At this point I've only made kits (grapes will start in 2019), but I definitely see a difference between the whites that stayed cool (under 65) all through fermentation and those than ran up into the high 70's. The cooler ferments seemed fresher, crisper and saw a greatly diminished kit taste early on. The warm ferments came around, but took several months longer and never quite matched the cool ones. Just my opinion.

 

[Scooter68]

With any fruit I would doubt the "Pluses" of heating juices other than it helps to prevent bacterial growth or premature fermentation.

I've only been at this for 3 years now but common sense says the heat will destroy certain characteristics of any fruit including wine grapes. So, while it may be the prudent thing for commercial juiced produces, how many grow on-site wineries heat their wine at any step? That's a real question and I think the answer bears on this topic.

That's not to condemn kit wines but I would have to question the depth of flavor characteristics of a kit wine that uses any juice heated for any reason. The fresher the fruit, the better the potential wine from that fruit. Perhaps the average wine consumer cannot taste the difference but I find it impossible to believe that that there is no difference.

As to quoted author, as it pertains to kit wines, he's probably correct, other than going through the motions to learn how to do it... cooler fermentation of a kit wine may be like closing the barn door after the horse has gotten out. Thus kit wines are already on the short end of the flavor potential making them a great place for beginners to start, but a place grow out of if you want to enjoy full flavored wines.

 

[pillswoj]

The article is ONLY addressing kits, not grape wines, and wineries don’t make their wines from kits, hence the temperature control. The point that both the author and @bstnh1 are pointing out, is that the delicate flavors / aromas of a kit are blown off, by heating during the manufacturing process, before you ever get your kit, so there’s no reason to ferment cool.

Personally, I like a cool ferment for whites, be it from kit or grapes, and believe (with no empirical evidence, only my own taste) that it produces a better product.

I think the point being missed by Tim is that the yeast itself creates many volatile compounds which will be driven off by higher fermentation temperatures. I only do higher quality white kits in the winter and control fermentation temperature to the low 50's. I definitely notice a difference.

 

[Johnd]

I think the point being missed by Tim is that the yeast itself creates many volatile compounds which will be driven off by higher fermentation temperatures. I only do higher quality white kits in the winter and control fermentation temperature to the low 50's. I definitely notice a difference.

I agree with your opinion, mine is the same, just haven’t conducted any tests with identical kits fermented at different temps, with talented blind tasters to confirm my experience, but then again, neither has the author...........

 

[ALLYSON WATINs]

Thanks for all the help, todays reading is now at .990, however after much reading i have discovered that the temp could alter my true sg reading. Should I be concerned? Should I wait until my sg is .988 before racking?

 

[Scooter68]

The best way to decide if "it's done" is to check the SG until it doesn't change for 3 days.

Since you are at .990 you are most likely done. Practically speaking - That drop from .990 to .988 isn't really worth worrying about.

 

[ALLYSON WATINs]

First I would like to say this forum is great, so much infomation and knowledge, however still green at this and have yet another question. My batch of wine has been clarifying for the past 12 days, what signs am i looking for that lets me know its time to bottle?

Started another batch, this time a Pinot Noir, and now I know why you can never have enough carboys.

Fingers crossed that my Cab is drinkable, and that I can gain experience on the bottleing process!

Any and all suggestion will be appriciated

 

[BigH]

First I would like to say this forum is great, so much infomation and knowledge, however still green at this and have yet another question. My batch of wine has been clarifying for the past 12 days, what signs am i looking for that lets me know its time to bottle?

My checklist for a dry red is

• Primary fermentation complete (duh, but a lot of people mess this up)
• Verification that MLF is complete if I did one
• Oak additions have been in the wine for the manufacturers suggested time
• Cold stabilization complete
• pH and TA are where I want them
• Wine tastes good and there is no need for further treatments of tannins, oak, reduless, or clarifying agents
• The last racking I did left little sediment in the old carboy and the wine looks clear

SO2 levels measured and adjusted along the way. As a general rule, I don't bottle until at least 9 months after harvest. However, you can age in the bottle if you want as long as the items on that checklist are complete.

H

 

[mainshipfred]

Allyson, I would recommend letting it clear in the carboy at least 3 months, maybe a racking in between and then make sure you rack prior to bottling. At three months I would imagine you will still get a little sediment over time but no big deal. I'm going to put my money on it will be more then just drinkable.

 

[ALLYSON WATINs]

Thanks for the resposes so far, keep in mind this is a kit wine. Not sure if this makes a difference

 

[balatonwine]

I was speaking to a local commercial winemaker, whom a few years ago had the highest rated Syrah in the nation. He lets his fermentations run to 90+ degrees by design. It was hard to argue with him with his Wine Spectator award on the wall..

Harumpf!!!

Wine Spectator: A bunch of massively opinionated, pretentious super tasters who try to dominate what wine "should" be, based on their own genetic limitations.

See how easy it is to argue against such "awards"?

In other words, I really care little about how someone else "rates" a wine, except in a very gross general degree (i.e drinkable or may make a decent vinegar). My palate, my tastes, etc, all controlled by my genetics, and to some extend by my experience and preferences, may differ and lead to an entirely different opinion. For example, I don't like "big bold high alcohol reds" because I am not a super taster. Even though the super tasters have told everyone that is what a red wine should be. Non-sense. Make the wine you like. Drink the wine you like. Question the so called "experts".

 

[Scooter68]

Thanks for the resposes so far, keep in mind this is a kit wine. Not sure if this makes a difference

Actually it doesn't make much difference. The manufacturers want you to bottle that batch and start another (Buy another kit).

They want it to sound like you can have a Great wine in 4-6 weeks. You can have a drinkable wine in that time maybe, but a truly great wine that is really enjoyable will take longer.

The time factor is (Patience) is the hardest part for many of us who start making wines. Many new wine makers show up here and then when they find it's going to take a year to get a really great wine (Or more in some cases) Those new folks just fade out of sight. It's sad but stores and companies are quick to make a sale and slow to come across with the real facts.

I fell victim to that and rushed to bottle and drink my first batch. I wasn't 100% happy with the results but it certainly was drinkable. Friends were nice and complemented me. THEN when I held out a couple of bottles for a 12 months and 18 months there was a world of difference.

Now is the time to start another batch, then another and another and so on. Pretty soon you'll be finding that the waiting part isn't so hard when you can look a row of carboys at various ages.

IF you do bottle soon (within the next 60-90 days) do yourself a favor and save at least 3 - 4 bottles and open them at 12 months, 18 months, and 2 years from when you bottle. You will be very pleased with the progression.