fermentation never started, is it salvageable?

[Kristi]

Hi guys,

I expect that I may not have enough info (esp. re: hydrometer readings), but I'll ask anyway. Maybe the answer is simple.

Last month I started a gallon of hard cider (this recipe: http://themindtohomestead.com/making-apfelwein/) and one gallon of hard lemonade (from the book True Brew). I had made both of these recipes before with success. Neither of the brews showed any activity in the airlocks, and in each I used two different yeasts.

I opened them up today (probably should have done this earlier, but I had an eventful summer/fall beginning, and not in a good way), and the cider smells like it had fermented, but the lemonade does not. Can I just add more champagne yeast to the lemonade and see if it ferments, or should I throw it out and start over? I don't know if this makes a difference, but I used lemon juice from a bottle for this recipe, so perhaps that affected it?

Thanks in advance for your advice!

 

[Julie]

Sorry but you really need to take some hydrometer readings

 

[Kristi]

Sorry but you really need to take some hydrometer readings

Ok thank you.

[Edited to add]
I do want to say that the reason I haven't taken any is because I truly don't understand what the readings mean. Some recipes will say what the reading should be at a given time, but without understanding what each reading might mean, it's hard for me to troubleshoot what is wrong, or right, in a bottle of wine that I'm making. I see that there is a hydrometer reading thread that is for new people, so I'll check that out and see what I can discover and use for my next bottle of wine.

But for now, can I take the hydrometer reading of the lemonade and tell anything from that? I don't have a reading from when I started the lemonade, so I am not sure it would help, but y'all can probably tell me that.

Thanks!

 

[Kristi]

Ok, I watched a couple of videos, read the first few pages of "how to use a hydrometer thread" and took a reading. My lemonade is reading right at 1.000 right now, so if I have read this thread correctly, and if I added a total of 1 cup of sugar to a gallon of lemon juice/water (mixture), then the beginning reading should have been 1.020? Would the lemon juice affect specific gravity?

So if, in theory, the first reading was 1.020 (or higher because of the lemon juice), then *some* fermentation has taken place, it just hasn't finished. I learned in the last video that I watched that I should take another reading in 3 days to make sure the s.g. is the same, and THEN I will know if the fermentation process is actually finished. Am I on the right track?

If so, and if the reading is the same in 3 days (still 1.000), how do I get it to finish fermenting to the correct reading. As a matter of fact, what IS the correct finished ferment reading for hard lemonade? My book doesn't seem to give that information for the recipe I used.

 

[menerdari]

Lemon juice is kind of hard to ferment, sounds like you got it most of the way,
You can stir the yeast back into suspension and see if you can get it any lower but it just may be done right where it is at. Have you tasted it?

 

[Kristi]

I sure haven't. I'll do it now.

I don't feel like it tastes like alcohol, but my husband thinks it does. I think I'll stir up the mix and see if it will ferment more. I'm wondering if I should add a little more sugar to up the alcohol content?

 

[montanaWineGuy]

Before fermentation the sugar dominates the taste. After fermentation the sugar is consumed and the taste difference should be very noticeable.

 

[sour_grapes]

You are on the right track. My calculations (from Fermcalc) agree with yours, namely 1 cup sugar in 1 gallon should result in a SG of about 1.020.

Here is the thing, however: If fully fermented, this will only give you about 2.5% ABV. This is mighty weak brew.

Moreover, this is probably done fermenting. Although stronger wines will have a final SG as low as 0.990 to 0.995, this is because alcohol is significantly less dense than water. But, even if your wine is fully fermented, you will have very little alcohol, so the density will be close to 1.000 under the best of circumstances.

And, I agree with Montana: Taste it! Is it still sweet?

 

[Kristi]

Thanks! It actually tastes pretty acidy.

So, no way to up the alcohol content? Bummer! I do remember it was a much weaker brew than our cider.

I'll have to try a different recipe next time.

 

[NorCal]

I'd toss it and start from scratch and follow the skeeter pee recipe/process closely. The ingredients are only a few bucks and it is hard not to have it turn out good if you follow the directions.

 

[Kristi]

I'd toss it and start from scratch and follow the skeeter pee recipe/process closely. The ingredients are only a few bucks and it is hard not to have it turn out good if you follow the directions.

I'd love to try the skeeter pee recipe, do you have a link for that?

Also, why would you recommend throwing it out? Is it not still ok to drink?

Thanks!

 

[sour_grapes]

So, no way to up the alcohol content? Bummer! I do remember it was a much weaker brew than our cider.

I don't see any reason that you could not add more sugar. The fermentation may begin again on its own (as I believe you have not yet racked off the lees from the first fermentation), or you could repitch more yeast if needed.

I'll have to try a different recipe next time.

Better to follow principles than recipes. How much alcohol do you want? Add enough sugar to raise the SG to value you want for a given amount of ABV.

ABV = (Starting SG - Final SG)*131

 

[montanaWineGuy]

I'd love to try the skeeter pee recipe, do you have a link for that?

Also, why would you recommend throwing it out? Is it not still ok to drink?

Thanks!

I wouldn't give up on it. Stabilize and add some sugar to take away the acidic taste and enjoy it.

 

[Kristi]

I wouldn't give up on it. Stabilize and add some sugar to take away the acidic taste and enjoy it.

Thanks! I was thinking of doing that as well. At least with a lower alcohol level, I'll know that I can have more than 1 or 2 at a time!

 

[Kristi]

I don't see any reason that you could not add more sugar. The fermentation may begin again on its own (as I believe you have not yet racked off the lees from the first fermentation), or you could repitch more yeast if needed.



Better to follow principles than recipes. How much alcohol do you want? Add enough sugar to raise the SG to value you want for a given amount of ABV.

ABV = (Starting SG - Final SG)*131

I haven't done anything with it--there is still about 3/4" of sediment at the bottom. I did stir it up a bit to see what would happen but I don't think there has been any change.

Thanks, and I agree---principles are much easier to work with, I think. As long as I know what I'm going for, I can usually figure stuff out. Recipes are different from recipe to recipe, and some assume you understand the principles (which I don't completely).

So if I wanted to add enough sugar to make more alcohol content in my 1 gallon jar, how much sugar would I add? I think there is only room enough to add a few Tbsp to the jar if I don't rack it. If I do, there will be more space in the new vessel. Would I add 1 cup to double the alcohol level? And if I add more sugar, would I add more yeast?

I'm sorry for so many questions. I suppose this is a crash course in correcting a less-than-desirable batch.

Next time, I'll plan on using the skeeter pee recipe on skeeterpee.com.

 

[sour_grapes]

I haven't done anything with it--there is still about 3/4" of sediment at the bottom. I did stir it up a bit to see what would happen but I don't think there has been any change.

Thanks, and I agree---principles are much easier to work with, I think. As long as I know what I'm going for, I can usually figure stuff out. Recipes are different from recipe to recipe, and some assume you understand the principles (which I don't completely).

So if I wanted to add enough sugar to make more alcohol content in my 1 gallon jar, how much sugar would I add? I think there is only room enough to add a few Tbsp to the jar if I don't rack it. If I do, there will be more space in the new vessel. Would I add 1 cup to double the alcohol level? And if I add more sugar, would I add more yeast?

I'm sorry for so many questions. I suppose this is a crash course in correcting a less-than-desirable batch.

Next time, I'll plan on using the skeeter pee recipe on skeeterpee.com.

Yes, if you want more alcohol, you must add more sugar. Each cup you add will raise the SG by about 0.020 points and, therefore, the ABV by about 2.5 percent.

As I said, you probably will not need to add more yeast. The sediment at the bottom likely contains many dormant yeast. However, if you add sugar and fermentation does not re-start, you can safely add more yeast.

 

[Kristi]

Yes, if you want more alcohol, you must add more sugar. Each cup you add will raise the SG by about 0.020 points and, therefore, the ABV by about 2.5 percent.

As I said, you probably will not need to add more yeast. The sediment at the bottom likely contains many dormant yeast. However, if you add sugar and fermentation does not re-start, you can safely add more yeast.

Awesome, thank you so much, Paul! You've been an excellent help.

 

[NorCal]

The reason I would recommend tossing it and starting over is that you have had this liquid sitting unprotected for a month. Who knows what is growing in there. For a dollar or so in sugar and lemon, I would want to start fresh.

Use the search feature for Skeeter...you will discover a whole new world.

Update: Here is the link: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44283

 

[menerdari]

I just bottled my first 5 gallon batch of skeeter pee last week, this stuff is amazing, everyone that has tried it loves it.
I divided the 5 gallons in separate 1 gallon batches, I flavored 4 of them with frozen juice concentrate, Pina colada, strawberry daiquiri, apple raspberry and passion fruit, the 5th one I just added a cup of sugar to sweeten.

 

[Kristi]

The reason I would recommend tossing it and starting over is that you have had this liquid sitting unprotected for a month. Who knows what is growing in there. For a dollar or so in sugar and lemon, I would want to start fresh.

Use the search feature for Skeeter...you will discover a whole new world.

Update: Here is the link: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44283

Ok, I see. Even with an airlock stuff can grow in there? If so, then yeah, I might want to do that. I was under the impression that the airlock would keep the liquid somewhat free of "growing things". I've got a lot to learn.