expired wine kit ?
- Thread starter robvan
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Been done many times, you’re on the right track, switch out the outdated components and give it a shot. New yeast, new sulfite, new sorbate (if you use it), bentonite is probably fine unless it got wet.
I‘d guess that the vast majority of folks find success with kits as “young” as yours, good luck!!
Scooter68
Fruit "Wine" Maker
Like Johnd says - Never heard of bentonite expiring. Yeast, Sorbate, Pectic Enzyme, yest and K-meta (maybe) if not sealed well. As long as the juice hasn't burst or swelled the container... go for it.
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so I started the batch on Monday 5/18.
yeast was ec-1118 lavlin
Specific gravity was at 1.076. I used spring water and I am fermenting in the basement about
69 degrees F. I still do not see any bubbling in my air lock. Broke my hydrometer and have a new one coming by Sunday. Should I pitch yeast again or wait to do a reading on day 7 -10?
So I started the batch on Monday 5/18.
yeast was ec-1118 lavlin
Specific gravity was at 1.076. I used spring water and I am fermenting in the basement about
69 degrees F.
using a 6 gallon plastic bucket with an airlock.
I still do not see any bubbling in my air lock. Broke my hydrometer and have a new one coming by Sunday. Should I pitch yeast again or wait to do a reading on day 7 -10?
yeast was ec-1118 lavlin
Specific gravity was at 1.076. I used spring water and I am fermenting in the basement about
69 degrees F.
using a 6 gallon plastic bucket with an airlock.
I still do not see any bubbling in my air lock. Broke my hydrometer and have a new one coming by Sunday. Should I pitch yeast again or wait to do a reading on day 7 -10?
TonyP
Senior Member
In pitching did you just add the yeast as the directions probably show or did you prepare it in 104F water as many winemakers prefer?
Also, you don't say which kit you're using but 1.076 is a bit low. Did you stir to take the juice into solution off the bottom?
Also, you don't say which kit you're using but 1.076 is a bit low. Did you stir to take the juice into solution off the bottom?
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TonyP
Senior Member
I'm not as familiar with expired kits as some others so I'll leave this to them on how to correct your problem. However, you have to give the yeast a fighting chance. By and large, here's the way it's done.
Rehydrate Lalvin EC-1118 in 5-8 times its weight of tap or spring water at 104F. (A typical 5 gram packet would use 25-40ml.) Let it stand for at least 20 minutes, gently stir to break up any clumps then add to the must.
Rehydrate Lalvin EC-1118 in 5-8 times its weight of tap or spring water at 104F. (A typical 5 gram packet would use 25-40ml.) Let it stand for at least 20 minutes, gently stir to break up any clumps then add to the must.
- The total rehydration duration should never exceed 45 minutes
- Avoid cold shocking the yeast. The temperature drop between the must to be inoculated and the rehydration medium should never be >18F
- It is essential to rehydrate the yeast in a clean container
- Initial rehydration in must is not advisable *This is what it sounds like you did.
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no need to be hesitant about popping off the lid and basing all your observations just on airlock activity. You can safely remove to check for visible activity. (Early o2 exposure is beneficial to the yeast. Many of us use a clean towel or rest the lid on loose since it can be a hassle constantly snapping off & on to stir and check SG)
and even though you broke your hydrometer you can still calculate and add sugar for a more appropriate abv —
1.090 SG = 2.15lbs sugar
1.100SG = 3.77lbs sugar
(Using FermCalc)
Addition within this range would target ~13%abv. Otherwise at 1.076 it would be about 11% merlot.
If you decided to do this then now would be the time—before it’s actively fermenting.
And if after checking there’s still zero activity after 72hours now then def go with a proper yeast hydration like @Tony explained.
Good luck and keep us updated!
and even though you broke your hydrometer you can still calculate and add sugar for a more appropriate abv —
1.090 SG = 2.15lbs sugar
1.100SG = 3.77lbs sugar
(Using FermCalc)Addition within this range would target ~13%abv. Otherwise at 1.076 it would be about 11% merlot.
If you decided to do this then now would be the time—before it’s actively fermenting.
And if after checking there’s still zero activity after 72hours now then def go with a proper yeast hydration like @Tony explained.
Good luck and keep us updated!
I've made kits as much as 3 years old with no problems. If the kit is stored properly (not frozen nor over heated) they're good for years.
Note that a "best by" and an "expiration date" are not the same thing. The "best by" date is a guess by the manufacturer regarding the quality of the product. The product doesn't suddenly go bad on that date.
These dates are also used by the manufacturer to help the seller keep track of old products, so they can move them, e.g., discount for quicker sale.
I purchase older kits specifically for the cost savings. I haven't had a problem yet -- which doesn't mean I won't, but as long as the kit has been stored properly, I'm not concerned. I know how my local shop stores things.
Note that a "best by" and an "expiration date" are not the same thing. The "best by" date is a guess by the manufacturer regarding the quality of the product. The product doesn't suddenly go bad on that date.
These dates are also used by the manufacturer to help the seller keep track of old products, so they can move them, e.g., discount for quicker sale.
I purchase older kits specifically for the cost savings. I haven't had a problem yet -- which doesn't mean I won't, but as long as the kit has been stored properly, I'm not concerned. I know how my local shop stores things.
I agree with @Ajmassa, take the airlock off. I have done both -- put the lid on loosely and covered with a towel. My anecdotal (non-scientific) evidence is that the initial fermentation goes faster if there's more oxygen, e.g., use a large towel.
Secondary fermentation, e.g., rack @ ~1.010 and move to carboy, always seems slower. That last few degrees of SG seems to take as much time as the initial fermentation. (again, this is anecdotal, I have not made a study of fermentation time).
EDIT: I had to research this. The following text is from this site, and while I cannot say how authoritative the author is, their explanation matches my prior understanding and explains it better than I can.
During the aerobic fermentation stage, fermentation is more rapid. On average, 70 percent of the fermentation activity will happen during these first few days. There is a considerable amount of foaming during primary fermentation and the foam will typically last for the first three to five days. The primary fermentation is also called an aerobic fermentation because the fermentation vessel is allowed to be opened to the air. This air plays an important role in the multiplication of the yeast cells. Why do you ask? Well, little packets of yeast that is generally called for in wine recipes will typically be multiplied up to 100 to 200 times during the few days of primary fermentation. This multiplying stage would be hindered if air were not present. That is why it is important that you do not use an air-lock during the first few days of a fermentation and allow the fermentation to be open to air.
Secondary fermentation, e.g., rack @ ~1.010 and move to carboy, always seems slower. That last few degrees of SG seems to take as much time as the initial fermentation. (again, this is anecdotal, I have not made a study of fermentation time).
EDIT: I had to research this. The following text is from this site, and while I cannot say how authoritative the author is, their explanation matches my prior understanding and explains it better than I can.
During the aerobic fermentation stage, fermentation is more rapid. On average, 70 percent of the fermentation activity will happen during these first few days. There is a considerable amount of foaming during primary fermentation and the foam will typically last for the first three to five days. The primary fermentation is also called an aerobic fermentation because the fermentation vessel is allowed to be opened to the air. This air plays an important role in the multiplication of the yeast cells. Why do you ask? Well, little packets of yeast that is generally called for in wine recipes will typically be multiplied up to 100 to 200 times during the few days of primary fermentation. This multiplying stage would be hindered if air were not present. That is why it is important that you do not use an air-lock during the first few days of a fermentation and allow the fermentation to be open to air.
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For a wine kit, where the environment is intended to be nearly perfect for producing wine, there is plenty of air for the yeast to do the job they have, multiply and produce alcohol. With a wine kit, air-lock or no air-lock works just fine. Now that being said, I leave the lid barely on and no airlock, why?? because I like to stir the wine every day and take the occasional Sg reading and it is easier to do with the lid not clamped down.
If I am fermenting fruits, juice from grapes, almost anything else, I assume I will be adding nutrients, punching down, doing other things, where having a lid locked down is a PIA.
But even with those there is plenty of oxygen for the yeast to do their job inside the bucket with a lid snapped down and an airlock on.
If I am fermenting fruits, juice from grapes, almost anything else, I assume I will be adding nutrients, punching down, doing other things, where having a lid locked down is a PIA.
But even with those there is plenty of oxygen for the yeast to do their job inside the bucket with a lid snapped down and an airlock on.
* if there is any damage to the bag new or old kit, toss it. The sugars/ nutrition in the juice will last as long as the package is tight ex MREs. Flavors are fat based and they will change with time due to oxidation. The 1000 lb pallet version of your bag may be in a warehouse 12 to 15 months before we reprocess the contents into grocery store size packages with a retail code date.
* when industry is choosing a code date we pick one where the product quality is similar to that at the development center. The assumption is that a customer will expect some shelf life after he purchases the product.
* yeast are heat sensitive, how was it stored
* sorbate and K meta are humidity sensitive, where was it stored
TonyP
Senior Member
I don't want to change the topic here but will comment briefly on open versus closed fermentation. I believe the choice is based on several factors, one being the type of wine being produced. I look to keep fermentation slow when making whites (particularly aromatic wines) and will use closed fermentation and lower temperatures because I want to retain the volatile aromas. For reds, an open fermentation is fine.
GaDawg
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I know lowering you temp will slow fermentation, but I wouldn’t think you have that much control over the O2 in a typical fermentation vessel, and I’m sure primary fermentation in a carboy would be messy.
TonyP
Senior Member
GaDawg, I suspect I'm missing something in your comment because I think you know everything I'm about to say, but here goes.
I don't think anyone's suggesting home winemaker's can precisely control oxygen during primary fermentation. Everyone, though, has imprecise but substantial control over air (i.e., oxygen) during the entire winemaking process. That's the whole idea behind some winemakers using open fermentation without a solid cover that allows oxygen while others are closed, limiting the oxygen to what's in the fermenter.
Open fermentation allows multiple times the oxygen available in closed fermentation which results in (among other things) rapid early fermentation. Using sealed fermentation limits oxygen, slowing the process.
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