Dreaded white film in carboys

[shoebiedoo]

for the past year or so I've been battling this white film that's been showing up in my carboys (mostly the reds). I realize this is a bacteria of some type but I can't figure why it keeps coming back. 2 weeks ago it showed up the carboys below. I racked and added 1/4 tsp sulfite. as you can see, in just 2 weeks it's back

Pinot Noir





Barolo




I have these carboys and also some 15 gallon Flextanks, which are fine.
I washed out the carboys with Oxyclean, then sanitized with a sulfite solution which has 1.5 tsps each of sulfite and citrus acid per gallon. I'm using waterless airlocks but have had this problem with 3 piece water locks as well.

Any guesses?

 

[Boatboy24]

I thought sulfite should be 3tsp/gallon. Realize you get more bang for your buck when adding the citric, but I didn't think it was that much.

 

[Johnd]

I've not seen that in my wines before, but is it possible that it's protein or just leftover cleaning solution??

If I had that happening repeatedly, I'd seal it up in a test tube with some wine and send it off to a lab for analysis so I could figure out what it was and eliminate it forever.

 

[Bubba1]

I have the same problem with 4 carboys of a Nebbiolo Montipulciano mix from Juice pail and grapes I just racked and added Kmeta this past weekend and Im curious to see if the grape variatel has anything to do with it. It tastes and smells fine. I hot water PBW clean rinse and sanitize with starsan. I also have 8 other carboys with big reds in them with no problems.

 

[Johnd]

I have the same problem with 4 carboys of a Nebbiolo Montipulciano mix from Juice pail and grapes I just racked and added Kmeta this past weekend and Im curious to see if the grape variatel has anything to do with it. It tastes and smells fine. I hot water PBW clean rinse and sanitize with starsan. I also have 8 other carboys with big reds in them with no problems.

Have you used any additives to aid in precipitating the proteins out? Like Bentonite??

 

[Bubba1]

No John no additives at all it only showed up in this batch all done with RC212

 

[AZMDTed]

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51241

Does what I had sound like what you have?

 

[Bubba1]

Thanks Ted that sounds exactly like what I have, I squeezed my grapes trying to get my moneys worth as apposed to just punching down. Sorry Shoebiedoo didn't mean to hijack your thread I hope Teds article helped you as well.

 

[Tnuscan]

Thanks Ted that sounds exactly like what I have, I squeezed my grapes trying to get my moneys worth as apposed to just punching down. Sorry Shoebiedoo didn't mean to hijack your thread I hope Teds article helped you as well.

Why would squeezing the grape, be that much different than, pressing them in a press? Is there that much of a difference in the pressure?

 

[Tnuscan]

I have the same problem with 4 carboys of a Nebbiolo Montipulciano mix from Juice pail and grapes I just racked and added Kmeta this past weekend and Im curious to see if the grape variatel has anything to do with it. It tastes and smells fine. I hot water PBW clean rinse and sanitize with starsan. I also have 8 other carboys with big reds in them with no problems.

How many pounds of grapes?

How did you press them?

 

[shoebiedoo]

HEY BUBBA, GIVE ME MY THREAD BACK I don't believe mine is protein. These carboys contain the juice that did not fit in the 15 gallon flex tanks, which are doing fine. It also has a slight musty smell to it. Hmmmm

 

[AZMDTed]

HEY BUBBA, GIVE ME MY THREAD BACK I don't believe mine is protein. These carboys contain the juice that did not fit in the 15 gallon flex tanks, which are doing fine. It also has a slight musty smell to it. Hmmmm

That's too bad, protein would have been a simple answer. If you've got the same juice in separate tanks and only one is doing the nasty, then it sounds to me like a contamination issue in the carboys. A serious level of cleaning and sanitizing of them and everything that touches them is probably in order. Not sure about saving the current batch in them though. Here's a link to good article by Tim Vandergrift that might help.

https://winemakermag.com/762-wine-kit-first-aid

 

[Johnd]

HEY BUBBA, GIVE ME MY THREAD BACK I don't believe mine is protein. These carboys contain the juice that did not fit in the 15 gallon flex tanks, which are doing fine. It also has a slight musty smell to it. Hmmmm

Is it possible that the same thing is indeed in the flex tank, but the fact that it's spread out across a large area as opposed to a 1" diameter area at the top of the carboy, is just making it much more noticeable?

 

[shoebiedoo]

Is it possible that the same thing is indeed in the flex tank, but the fact that it's spread out across a large area as opposed to a 1" diameter area at the top of the carboy, is just making it much more noticeable?

Yeah, I've been expecting it to show up but there are NO signs of any type of film in the Flextanks. one thing I read was to use 1/2 tsp of K-Metta when this rears it's ugly head and I only used 1/4. I'm going to wash EVERYTHING with Star San and see what happens. My guess is the wine thief as I use separate one's for white and red but everything get's the bath. Hopefully I can get ahead of the problem.

Thanks Guys

 

[ibglowin]

Shoe,

I can almost guarantee you that is Mycoderma, a a wild surface yeast that can ruin your wine if left unchecked. The "cure" is lots of Sulfite and keeping O2 out as it needs O2 to multiply. Are you using waterless airlocks in your Flextanks as well? If your using regular airlocks with meta in the Flextanks and you don't have signs of it there the answer to your problem is more than likely the waterless airlocks not sealing and allowing air into the carboys.

Yeah, I've been expecting it to show up but there are NO signs of any type of film in the Flextanks. one thing I read was to use 1/2 tsp of K-Metta when this rears it's ugly head and I only used 1/4. I'm going to wash EVERYTHING with Star San and see what happens. My guess is the wine thief as I use separate one's for white and red but everything get's the bath. Hopefully I can get ahead of the problem.

Thanks Guys

 

[shoebiedoo]

Shoe,

I can almost guarantee you that is Mycoderma, a a wild surface yeast that can ruin your wine if left unchecked. The "cure" is lots of Sulfite and keeping O2 out as it needs O2 to multiply. Are you using waterless airlocks in your Flextanks as well? If your using regular airlocks with meta in the Flextanks and you don't have signs of it there the answer to your problem is more than likely the waterless airlocks not sealing and allowing air into the carboys.

Mike,
on the carboys, I'm using the airlocks we were talking about a few months back. The Flextanks have the water-less ones they sell on the website. As you can see, I've kept the carboys topped off and had this problem with the 3 piece so I'm guess it's an equipment issue. time to clean everything. I'm just surprised I never have this problem with my whites

 

[Boatboy24]

I'm just surprised I never have this problem with my whites

Could be the higher acidity in the white wines is just enough to keep it at bay.

 

[ibglowin]

If it is Mycoderma it takes awhile to get established so your whites could be bottled long before any signs or symptoms are seen. I just don't trust those waterless airlocks, bought one and never used it. Mop up the film with a paper towel, hit it with a heavy dose of sulfite on top and I would stick a solid stopper in it so you know no air is getting in.

 

[Tnuscan]

I agree with Johnd get a sample and get the lab test. Before it starts growing horns.

I,m wondering if last seasons grapes were in protein overload. This is every where.

Hope you find out and eliminate the problem.

 

[shoebiedoo]

Racking it today and hitting it with a 1/2 teaspoon (6 gal) of metta. It will have time to stabilize.

Thanks guys