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down stream adding more nutrient, acid blend

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Fran365

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My current 4th wine making attempt is a concord grape wine with black pepper, clove and cinnamon. I used a recipe from on line and altered it abit. THE 1 GALLON OF MUST HAD 1/8TH TSP.TANNIN, 1 TSP. NUTRIENT and 3/4 TEASPOON ACID BLEND as additives. I used a 2 gallon bucket for a primary and did a 24 hour rest and then pitched yeast and left it be one week for the primary fermenting, which it did. After the 1 week came racking to glass. At that time I added 1/2 cup powdered sugar, and to my great surprise I had 1 and 1/2 gallons to deal with. Turns out the Welch's juice I bought was in 3 quart containers not 2 (I thought 2 would = 1 gallon). I don't think I have a tragedy on hand but should I make up the chemical additives to match a 1 1/2 gallon batch? That would be a pinch of tannin, 1/2 tsp. nutrient and 3/8ths tsp. acid blend more. I am now in week 1 in second glass fermenter. Any ideas? I don't know if it matters but I deleted 12 ounces of juice at the very beginning and added one 11.5 ounce container of frozen grape concentrate. Fran
 

cintipam

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Lots and lots to discuss here. First, do not add more nutrient. If your ferment is finished (and without a hydrometer reading we can't know for sure, but since it is a week later your ferment is either finished or stuck) then nutrient would only feed bad bacteria.

Don't worry about your additional must, you added plenty of flavor with the concentrate. Tannin and acid blend are pretty much only needed for taste, so if you added a full can of grape juice concentrate that added a great deal of both acid & sugar already.

So at this point you have already added a good deal more sugar than you thought (by fruit juice concentrate) and you have just added more (powdered) sugar. Your ferment is likely to start up again due to powdered sugar. It could overflow.

It would really help to know the hydrometer reading before and after adding the sugar. Also, did you add any sorbate? How long before adding more (powdered) sugar did you add that sorbate?

In order to really help we need the full recipe and the timeline you followed. But you don't need to worry about the nutrient unless you have a stuck fermentation. And only add tannin if your taste buds tell you to.

Pam in cinti
 

Fran365

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Hi Pam, thanks for the response. After the 24 hour rest the must details where: SG= 1.092, PH=3.5, PA=12%, after these readings a Pasteur Red was pitched.Had 4 days or so of active(bubbles in air lock) which slowly quieted down. Before racking to glass I added the 1/2 cup powdered sugar which caused a short lived rush of bubbles. In glass I have no visible air lock bubbles but on close examination have many tiny bubbles rising to the surface. I was concerned about the possible need for more acid blend but after a week in the glass I'll do all my readings(if the tiny bubbles have subsided) and taste it and see where I'm at. Had one source warn "don't expect much from Welch's bottled juice", we will know more this Sat. PM. Fran
 

Fran365

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Also I've used sorbate at the very beginning before the 24 hour rest and before pitching yeast. Attached is a shot of the primary fermenter. Fran

DSCN4570.jpg
 

cintipam

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Fran, I'm impressed by your notes. Better than most newbies. But I think you added Kmeta (potassium metabisulphite) before pitching yeast, since that would have been one of the correct times to add it. Kmeta kills bad bugs and cleans your juice up to be ready for yeast. Sorbate is birth control for yeast. It can take a long time for yeast to die, as they usually go dormant and can live a long time in that state until more food (sugar, etc) comes along and wakes them up so they eat again. If you have not yet used Sorbate, then any sugar you add will be converted by yeast into alcohol until the alcohol percentage is so high it actually kills off the yeast.

Your beginning numbers look fine, tho for me that beginning SG is as high as I would want to go. PH is fine, but I admit I don't really test for TA so won't comment on that number. Your yeast tolerance is 16% for Pasteur Red, so I believe it could still be eating the powdered sugar. I think you will wind up with a fairly high alcohol batch that will take a long time to mellow out and be drinkable. Tannin does help a bit in smoothing out taste, so you might try a bench trial (little wine in a cup, mix in a pinch of tannin see if it tastes better before the tannin or after you added tannin).

What is your current SG? You need to test it daily to know if it still going down, or if the fermentation is stuck. As long as you see active fermentation you don't need to test daily, but right now we need to figure out what is going on.

Yes, I agree concord won't win any awards. But I remember how wonderful any wine I made myself tasted when I was a newbie. Time would smooth it out a bit, but I know how hard it is to wait when this is all so new.

Pam in cinti
 

Fran365

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Thanks again Pam, of course you are correct, I initially used campden(Pot. metabisulfite) to verify a clean must. I have pot. sorbate in stock but have never used it.This wine in question is my 4th gallon try. An apple/ grape and a grape/apple where devoured upon birth and, sadly, a rhubarb became ill and died of unknown causes(all I could see was the PH @5.5 was an issue from the start). Upon opening the primary ferment-er in the wine in question I has hit with what smelled like a vodka distillery. It will be strong, and perhaps not devoured immediately. Could those small bubbles I see rising be co2 and not fermentation activity? The SG was planned for this sat., will reconsider. Fran
 
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cintipam

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Cmason, good catch about the powdered sugar. I didn't think about that. I didn't really understand why one would add that small amount of additional sugar that late anyway unless one were backsweetening. But without sorbate, all it amounts to is a boost in alcohol.

Pam in cinti
 

Fran365

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Hi Pam and cmason, the concord wine I'm working with had a SG of .998 @ 70F. I will check again saturday. This wine is still very cloudy( one source said the cornstrch in powdered sugar can give your product a "haze"), don't know if that's normal(it is 5 days into the second fermenter) for welch's juice wines, but smells nice. As you might know the novice winemaker surfing the internet can get diverse advice, and as a newbie have no real discernment as to what is another beginners errors or and old hand giving good advice. This is how one learns. I did read one fellow say always add your sugar component after the yeast has worked on the juice sugar a few days. Looking forward to this wine and many more to come. I've received a warning about returning sample wine, when checking SG, back to the fermenter, if one sanitizes all componenets is it ok? I use Basic A, for no particular reason. Using the formula(intial SG minus last SG times 131) I get 13.5% alcohol. Fran
 
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Fran365

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This concord, a 1.5 gallon batch, is now bottles, I drank the half gallon while testing, I really like it, even new. Fran
 
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