degassing issue?

[BobF]

I've *never* been able to degas, really degas, a wine in less time by stirring vigorously. Using a vacuum pump isn't as consistent as I'd like, but is more consistent than stirring.

Sometimes degassing is done very quickly. Sometimes it takes forever.

I've done 30-40 batches using vacuum for racking and degassing and have yet to detect even a tinge of oxidation.

YMMV

 

[vacuumpumpman]

I also only use vacuum to transfer, as it degasses at the same time - I never had any issues at all with oxidation. So everytime I transfer I am removing co2 over time and of course temperature plays a large role in this.

 

[ShepherdQ]

Vacuum degassing introducing 02 makes little to no sense until you consider that "samples were retrieved at regular intervals and measured". Is it possible that the retrieval and measurement process affected 02 levels?

I think you're right, upon reflection, and I think it's the biggest flaw in the study. Pity though, it was neat to read.

 

[Impiryo]

I also suspect that, each time he took a sample, there was some semi-forceful backflow of room air into the carboy to replace the vacuum. Not a problem in practice, but in the experiment it was repeated many times. Also, he added more wine to top off each time - that wine may have been left open to air, or could take air/O2 in with it.

 

[andrewjp]

I don't understand degassing. Can someone please explain this to me? It must only affect kit wines, which I have never used. I am blessed to live close to good central CA grape regions. I made a lot of wine and never once degassed or even heard of it, let alone heard a professional winery use this technique. I always barrel age so I'm assuming the issue is leftover/trapped CO2 from primary that doesn't have enough time to escape before bottling. I used carboys for my first 2 vintages a while back and never had an issue there either. Just want to make sure I'm not missign something...

 

[derunner]

More experienced wine makers will hopefully respond, but I believe the issue is that with a kit wine, the instructions have you going from pitching to bottling in 4-6 weeks. So if you don't degass then the wine does not clear in 2 weeks and also co2 is left in the wine when you bottle.

I am not making 5 white wine kits which I am bulk aging for 3 months in carboys. I'm still degassing, but if I miss some, hopefully it disapates before I get to bottling. And if you age longer like 6-12 months, then even more would disapate. I also plan to get one of the vacuum wine pumps which help degass as you rack from carboy to carboy.

 

[robie]

Degassing is more of an issue when the must is not pressed toward the end of fermentation. That pressing removes most of the CO2. For whites, it is a problem even with fresh grapes. However, aging in a barrel will eliminate the CO2, regardless of wine color, of course.

Since kit wines are not pressed after fermentation, the wine is left loaded with CO2. Stirring or vacuuming must be done to remove the CO2. Some say long term aging under an air lock will remove the CO2, but I, personally have not found that to be true. Even after 18 months in a carboy under air lock, some of my wines were still CO2 loaded.

 

[andrewjp]

Okay, thanks. That makes sense to me. I usually see the wine a lot "quieter" after pressing, and I've never made a white so haven't experienced that issue. That is good to know b/c I was going to take a crack at making a Grenache Blanc or Viognier next year in addition to reds.

 

[keena]

I always barrel age...

This is degassing the wine for you. Time will Degas your wine.

 

[pete1325]

Not in all caes....I had a Merlot bulk aged in carboys for 14 months from grapes that was also loaded with c02. Before bottleing I whipped the snot out of it.....that seemed to help. Not that I'm that experienced, only making wine for ten years or so, but this "degassing" issue is like politics.....there's no agreeable answer for the problem.

 

[derunner]

Tonight I was degassing and stabalizing a Chardonnay kit and I did not seem to get any bubbles out with my drill mounted paddle stir rod. so then I thought I would try the manual method with my paddle end of my long spoon. I had not actually tried it before thinking the drill mounted method was the way to degass. Well surprise surprise, the paddle being swished back and forth rapidly brought out a lot of fine bubbles. I did this about 10 minutes, so I doubt I got them all, but it seemed to work better than the drill mounted paddles.

 

[cpfan]

Tonight I was degassing and stabalizing a Chardonnay kit and I did not seem to get any bubbles out with my drill mounted paddle stir rod. so then I thought I would try the manual method with my paddle end of my long spoon. I had not actually tried it before thinking the drill mounted method was the way to degass. Well surprise surprise, the paddle being swished back and forth rapidly brought out a lot of fine bubbles. I did this about 10 minutes, so I doubt I got them all, but it seemed to work better than the drill mounted paddles.

IMO (for what it's worth), round-and-round degassing (drill or paddle) is NOT as effective as back-and-forth degassing. So I use the drill a bit, mostly just to ensure that additives are stirred in, and the paddle back-and-forth a lot. Given the amount of wine that I am making these days (next to none), I can't be bothered with the expense of a vacuum pump.

Steve

 

[keena]

When you guys drill do you go forward then reverse? I learned that if you go forward with the drill and as soon as you see the top of the wine spin a little, switch the drill to reverse and go it seemed to Degas very well.also moving the drill back and fourth as you drill gently worked for me. I'm using a brake bleeder to Degas now but in the past that method with the drill worked well for me.

 

[derunner]

Yes, i am going in forward and then as you say it starts spinning, i switch to reverse. One other thing i forgot to mention is that first pass with degassing rod i had no bubbes. Then after using the spoon, I put in the Isinglass. then used the paddle rod to mix that in. That time the paddles brough out some gas and it almost overflowed. So I think the thrashing with the spoon must have had an effect that made the paddle rod more effective.

If other people get gas from using the paddles, then maybe i have to find a more powerful drill.

 

[DaveL]

Not in all caes....I had a Merlot bulk aged in carboys for 14 months from grapes that was also loaded with c02. Before bottleing I whipped the snot out of it.....that seemed to help. Not that I'm that experienced, only making wine for ten years or so, but this "degassing" issue is like politics.....there's no agreeable answer for the problem.

Just trying to get an understanding of the aging/gas issue and methods. When you aged did you use airlocks to allow CO2 to escape? Would this make a difference.
Also if this makes no difference then would aging in bottles allow it to degas at the same pace as bulk aging?