Degasing problems

[bpowell88]

Ok guys and gals need some advice!

I went to degas my WE Coastal White today and using the drill paddle bit I tried to avoid getting a vortex and went back and forth CCW and CW. On the instructions it says to put some in a test jar an shake it and if you hear a "poof" when you release your palm then you need to continue degassing... I degassed for about 10 or 15 minutes and still get a "poof" not much foam o bubbles coming up anymore in the Carboy especially compared to at first.

Is it done? Should I just clear it and top it off and come back in a few weeks and see how it is then?

Thanks!

Billy

 

[DoctorCAD]

Sometimes it will take hours to degas, other times the 10 minutes is fine.

 

[CharlieM]

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f5/degas-33412/

I had a similar question the other day. These are some of the responses I got.

 

[TonyP]

If the poof you get is slight, you're most likely good. I'm concerned though about your comment, "not much foam o bubbles coming up anymore in the Carboy especially compared to at first". I wouldn't consider it degassed when there's any foaming or bubbles rising.

Tony P.

 

[bpowell88]

Thanks tony, you said you wouldn't consider it degassed? Or did you mean would? Thanks!

 

[TonyP]

Thanks tony, you said you wouldn't consider it degassed? Or did you mean would? Thanks!

I'm curious to see if anyone has another thought. For me, the wine is either degassed or it's not. (It's like clean being only some dirt.) Some gas (to me) means it's not degassed. I'd keep degassing until there's no sign of gas.

Tony P.

 

[saramc]

To me, if you have active foaming or noticeable bubbles in your carboy--your wine is not degassed. The test tube (pfft! test) is a good indicator--if you have even the slightest pfft! then you still have CO2 in your wine.

But the most important thing is the temperature of you wine while you are trying to degas, if it is too cool you won't beat that CO2 out of the wine.

When I worked with the drill-powered wine degassing attachment, I have had wine degas in 2 days and take as long as 2 weeks. But honestly, anymore I just let the wine degas while bulk aging--it works for me.

If you have a vacuum system you can pull a vacuum on the wine and degas in glass carboy, OR as you are racking put a slight kink in your racking tube--this will degas the wine. Don't know if the kink in the tube method works without a vacuum or not.

 

[bpowell88]

Thanks Sara!

Do you think any sort of vacuum sealer for say a food saver would work? I'm trying to find an inexpensive vacuum sealer. Any help? Thanks!

 

[TonyP]

Thanks Sara!

Do you think any sort of vacuum sealer for say a food saver would work? I'm trying to find an inexpensive vacuum sealer. Any help? Thanks!

I know a vacuum sealer is used by folks here, so I suggest doing a forum search. There's two things to keep in mind, though. First, don't use a vacuum sealer with a plastic carboy as it may implode. Second, don't use it after adding clearing or stabilizing agents as it will bring them to the top of the wine.

When I feel I'm finished degassing, I often use a Vacu Vin to make certain there's no residual gas. (The Vacu Vin will fit on top of either a bung or carboy cap.) Some small bubbles coming up with a Vacu Vin can be just oxygen, but if you have CO2, you'll be able to tell the difference.

I also agree, though, that temperature is important. Try to get your wine to 75 degrees and you should be fine.

Tony P.

 

[bpowell88]

Ok great! I'll try the vacu vin next round... I
Already put in the stabilizing agents so I'll continue to drill it out! I'll also raise up the temp

 

[rjb222]

Degassing the arch nemesis of the kit wine maker. As long as your temperature of your wine is up while you are degassing you should be just fine. I think there is too much tadoo about the mystery of degassing. Time is the best degassed other than that there are several methods of degassing that have varied results. One thing to remember when degassing is you do not need to get rid of every bit of CO2 even commercial wines have a little bit left when bottled. The puff test I feel is a poor indicator as to the amount of residual gas left on a wine. My reasoning is this that every one will get a small puff of gas off a wine when put into a vessel and shook even properly degassed wines. If there is pressure there you can feel is a better indicator of too much gas being on your wine.

 

[CharlieM]

rjb222, your saying time is the best method of degassing? On my kit, I'm at step 3 which is degassing then let it sit 14 days before trying to move to stpe 4. So that 14 dyas could actually be 21 or 28, maybe checking for gas during that time frame?

 

[rjb222]

I am saying that we put kits into a expectation class like a cake recipe and this just does not work all the time. We put kits into the bottle if following instructions to the letter 4 weeks to ten weeks.Then we wonder why we have gassy wine. The other problem with degassing with a tool of any kind is oxidizing your wine. The reason for this is we stir and stir trying to rid the CO2 the protection level of the sulfite goes down due to the agitation of the stirring. we then put away a wine to clear that is low on sulfite and oxidization occurs not so much with a topped up wine but it still happens.To degas properly we need certain conditions with these conditions met we get a reasonable degassing done with out dropping our sulfite levels too low. Key one the wine temperature needs to be above 70 degrees The speed of the device needs to be kept down the spin needs to be countered There are two reasons for this first it keeps the surface of the wine level enough to reduce the introduction of oxygen. Two the theory to degassing is we actually cause cavitation the cavitation beats the CO2 off the wine. With the addition of the proper amount of sulfite we degas and protect the wine. I still believe that time is the best degasser as it is gentle natural and in a year or two you have a properly aged degassed wines after all that is how it has been done for centuries and it has worked perfectly until some one decided they could put a wine in the bottle in 4 weeks.

 

[TonyP]

rjb, I agree with you in general. Sorry though, but I beg to differ on some of the last post as it relates to the question originally posted, which referred to a value kit. Wine will degass over time but for me, that's usually 1-2 months at 70+ degrees. Waiting 1-2 years will put Winexpert Coastal White way past its prime.

I'm not a fan of value kits, never made one, and probably never will. However, they are an entry into wine making for many. Aging beyond a few months for these wines produces diminishing returns.

Charlie, you don't say what wine you're referring to. Generally, time and temperature will make degassing easier.

Tony P.

 

[rjb222]

There are exceptions to almost every thing we do whites kits would be one of those. Although I have no more than my own experience with this so there is no scientific proof for what I am saying right now. I have found that once the degassing is started and a majority of the CO2 is removed it continues for a couple of days with out much disturbance. I make sure my sulfite levels are proper through out the process and then splash rack off the deposits this removes more of the residual CO2.It is at that point I cool the temperature rest the wine and allow nature to take it's course. I also make premium kits for myself there is no comparison to the quality between a low end and a premium kit.

 

[TonyP]

rjb, looks like I may have learned something from you. My understanding has been that splash racking is done to solve problems (primarily sulfur related) and may cause oxidation or other problems if not done properly. Thus far, I have not needed to splash rack and have never done it. My read of your comment is that you splash rack (at least once) as part of your regular process. Is this so? Beyond getting out some residual SO2, are there other benefits?

Tony P.

 

[rjb222]

I do it strictly to get rid of more CO2. The keys are temperature and make sure your sulfite levels are proper.There is one way that is better for degassing I do not use as I am moving away from glass carboys in my FOP and that is vacuum there is less risk of oxidation using a vacuum. The reason i am moving away from glass is the fragile nature of it. Some times my brew room is very busy and I have broken one by kissing another carboy and two when putting them in the sink again kissing another carboy.I am nervous about some one sticking their hand into the wash station and cutting them selves. I caught my wife she is my employee cleaning the glass out of the water with out draining the sink for that reason alone I am going to the better bottle type carboy so that takes the vacuum possibility away from me.

 

[vacuumpumpman]

I will typically always splash rack under vacuum - atlest the first couple of rackings in order to remove most all the CO2. My temp in the cellar is typically 65 degrees - so it may take a couple of tranfers, compared to others. When ever the wine is due for racking - you are removing co2 at the same time, if you vacuum rack.

and yes time will always help the clarity and co2 removal - but for those who want to speed up the process up a bit - try the above methods

 

[CharlieM]

TonyP, the one I'm "degassing" is a Green Apple Riesling kit. The other kit that was put in the carboy from the main fementer on Monday was a White Merlot. These are my first venture into wine making. My next one will likely be something other than a kit, not sure yet what. But as for the GAR, I've let it sit today and will test tube test it tomorrow to see how it is.

 

[CharlieM]

Followup on my Green Apple Riesling kit - finally today NO GAS! I'm no expert but I guess heavy "whipping" one day, then letting it sit a day works pretty well. Now a 14 day rest period, check for clarity then on to bottling.