WineXpert Crushendo Montagnac Extended Maceration in progres

[rshosted]

I just started my Crush. Montagnac Saturday Evening (12/09/06). I decided to break the first rule of making a wine ("follow every direction, step by step"). I read an article in WineMaker Magazine about extended maceration and how they can keep the temperature down and not have spoilage. Well since my weather is about 30-45* F right now I decided to take advantage.

I put my oak chips into a cheescloth sac and I also put the grape skins into a cheesecloth sac (primarily to keep things easier to rack). I am now saving my yeast and will put it in later. I have not yet decided when. I figure with how they process the grape skins and seed for the Crushendo kits it won't last even close to 21+ days like the article said, but I figure if I can extend the maceration from 6-7 days to 9-10 days I have changed it by a serious amount of time. I may not make it that long, because it's a little wierd having a wine started, but not fermenting.

Some things I've noticed is that the oak chips in the cheescloth float, and the skin pack sinks. Normally I see that they float to the top, and some to the bottom. But I think they are ruled by the majority vote and do whatever. I assume that may change when I get an active fermentation.

Another thing I noticed with this kit, compared to past Crushendo kits I've done is they've added more Bentonite to the begining (is seems anyway). They are now having one add 15 grams. Normally it seemed much less. I don't like to add that much so I only added half. I feel they over do it a little. Plus with the cheesecloth sac, I don't need as much clarifier pulling things to the bottom.

Here are some pics to show what I've done.
The Sac, the grapes, and a scary hand:

What it looked like after it was all said and done:

Then out into the cold cruel world:

 

[peterCooper]

Is it 35-45 at night or during the day?

 

[smurfe]

Don't want to burst your bubble but I think you are not going to get anything extra from this. The wine you are making is already to the color you need. The extended maceration you read about in that article is using fresh pressed juice which is clearand leaving the skins in longer to extract the deeper color we desire. As the juice has already been processed to the correct color I can't see how it is going to get any darker, or if you would even want it any darker.


You might get some extra solids I guess, but the grape pack kits I have done pretty well use up all of the solids making the kit by directions. Now, I have been known to mis-read articles and live in my own little world of comprehension, but I did read this same article a couple days ago as well as in a winemaking book last night. Please correct me if I am wrong though.I hope you get something extra out of it though and I am like others and like to experiment and make a winethat is just a little different than anyone elses. Good Luck.


Smurfe

 

[Dean]

I have to agree with Smurfe. Those skins from WE are so completely processed that you may not gain much from this. All the phenolic extraction has already been done.

Now if this was fresh grapes, I'd say you have the right idea!

 

[rshosted]

I believe you guys are correct. Especially about not getting any color out of the skins. I think the wine is as colorful as it gets. I do believe the skins are so 'processed' (read ground up) that you can't get much more out of them than you would normally. Though, for some reason I have to believe that there is some type of protein that can be leached out of them to create more mouthfeel (even if they are 'processed'). I pulled the primary back into the warm today after about two days of 'maceration'.

As soon as it warms up, I will add yeast. I checked the temp and it was sitting at 36* so I feel confident the extra time will not affect anything in a negative way.

I'll have to let you know how it works out... in about two years

 

[smurfe]

I forgot to add to my original post about the Bentonite. There is probably more in that kit due to the increased solids from the grape pack. While the wine will clear, it may take quite a bit longer without the bentonite to adhere to during fermentation.


The bentonite is the factor that makes the kit wines clear as quick as they do. Without it, or reduced amounts, nature will have to do the work like in the fruit wines we make where it may take months for a wine with high solids to clear.


Smurfe

 

[PeterZ]

Doesn't bentonite also strip free proteins? I seem to recall reading that too much protein was bad, but too little was also bad????

 

[masta]

PeterZ,


This quote from Tim Vandergrift of Winexpert will helpanswer that question:



<DIV id=post-5682 ="postcolor">Well, Winexpert kits ask for the bentonite to be added on day one. We use it for the same reasons as any commercial winery: to remove proteins and colloids from solution, to leave the wine clear closer to bottling.

By adding it on day one, we ensure that it gets recirculated numerous times by the churning action of the CO2 bubbles during fermentation. As it's stirred up, it has a chance to come in contact with proteins, aminos and colloids, attach to them through molecular adsorption, and pull them from suspension.

When you add bentonite later in the process, you're obligated to use a lot more: we put either 10grams for whites, 15 grams for reds. The companies that add them post-fermentation use 30 grams in the whites and 80 grams in the reds. That's an awful lot of bentonite! However, you need to add that much because of the limited possibilities for recirculation and adsorption.

That's consistent with our fining philosophy in general: use the least intervention that will achieve your desired end. So, we're light on finings, and they just barely work to clear the wine. On the other hand, we're far less likely to strip our wines with our fining regimen.

Hope that helps out

 

[rshosted]

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argue with
Tim. I'm sure he is absolutely correct on that fact. Though, I believe
(and will possibly find out wrong) that with how I am putting my wine through
the trials it will clear fine. If not I will be out a couple of pennies.

I suspect because I have the skins in cheesecloth it should be much easier to
extract the solids that don't escape. As for the other solids, they should
settle with the 7 grams (approx) that I put into my kit. I have also read that
with patients the wine will settle and clear on it's own.



My hopes are, that with the extended maceration, cheesecloth sack, cool
weather, limited bentonite that I can extract a touch more than normal, for a
longer time. Allowing more flavors into the wine. I may be trying to get 'blood
from a turnip' but figure it's worth a try.



One of my primary concerns is that because the solids are bound in the cheesecloth
they don't circulate as much during vigorous fermentation, thus limiting the
contact and extraction. But having done another crushendo kit I am trying to
avoid the racking mess (even when using the nifty pour method.



I will also have to watch the wine close because of the lack of bentonite. If
it doesn't clear I will have to introduce a clarifying agent to prevent
spoilage of protein in the wine. But I really don't see that happening from the
few wines I have done so far. Ultimately, I am counting on cold weather to save
me if that does happen. By cooling the wine (after fermentation) I can limit
the rate of protein spoiling.



Plus I do like to cause great controversy that makes us all think

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[Dean]

Plus I do like to cause great controversy that makes us all think

And THAT is the mother of innovation and invention! If someone didn't challenge us all to think, we'd all be much worse off!

 

[rshosted]

Thought I would give some update:

SG was down to 1.000, so I racked. It was actually low enough to rack two days early, but I didn't want to get it off the skins/lees that early so I let it sit for 7 days of fermenting (plus the two days before that where it macerated).

By putting the skins in a cheescloth brewing bag, I saved myself a BIG headache. This is my 3rd crushendo kit and the easiest by far. The skin sac that I removed was about 1/3 of the size when I put it in.

The bag above when drained was about the size of a softball (maybe a touch smaller).

Then I used a spigot I installed on this bucket to transfer... Easy!

If you notice in the right side, my dog Jessie is a big moral support.

Becuase I pulled the bag out and moved the fermenting bucket up right before racking, I know I stirred a lot of sediment up. So I put the last of it in a gallon carboy to see if I can save a bottle out of it???

Then I decided to give them the cold shoulder. I figure this way the sediment is less likely to rot since there are a lot of soilds left in there. In a few days I will rack again once it settles down.

The single gallon is out of the picture, but it is in the cold weather too. We'll see how long I dare leave them out before I worry about them freezing.

 

[Wade E]

Looking good rs. I'm going to do one of those crushendos next year.