Boiled Over ... Hmmm

[Just-a-Guy]

This is an apricot made from two Vintner's Harvest 96 oz cans in about 5 gals of water, about 10 lbs of sugar (table). Had been in primary for a week and had gone from about 1.090 to about 1.006. Tasted pretty good, if a bit strong. This was the first time I had done a VH that had actual fruit in the can, so when I dumped it into the primary I was a little surprised - and the fruit did not go in a bag, just into the must.

I racked it over to a CB today, and a lot of the fruit/crud came with it. Boiled some bentonite in 2 cups of water and added it in, added a little apricot flavoring (because I had it), and topped up with about 2 cups of brandy. Figured I'd let it settle for a week or so and rack it again.

Well, within less than an hour I had what you see below. Ugh. Is this typical? I thought the fruit would settle to the bottom (not sure why I thought that, it floated on the top in the primary). I cleaned it up as best I could and re-set the air lock. It is visibly bubbly right now but so far has not boiled over again. Any suggestions?

 

[Just-a-Guy]

Here's a video of what's going on in there right now, 2 hours after racking. Wild.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_gM3LDRA08&feature=youtu.be[/ame]

 

[Dominic1920]

Neat video. Thats some active stuff there. Awesome. Sorry I don't have any suggestions though other than trying a blow off tube? thanks for sharing.

 

[BernardSmith]

Two possibilities... The particles in the bentonite even when apparently "dissolved" were still large enough to create what are called points of nucleation. Now , I am not a physical scientist (my background is in the social sciences) - so I may not have this just right but nucleation occurs when you introduce "impurities" (such as particles or dust) into a system that allows the system to organize itself in different ways - so , for example, when there is enough dust in the air the vapor in clouds will change to rain.. and in your carboy, the CO2 that was dispersed and dissolved in the wine will collect and outgas taking with it the fruit and other sediment. You may know the trick of putting a mentos candy in a coke bottle to produce a volcano. That's what you did when you added the bentonite.
An alternative thought is that when you added the apricot flavoring you added more sugar and the fermentation took off again only this time there was no excess room for the CO2 to collect and find its way out of the fermenter without first pushing up the fruit through the narrow mouth of the carboy which CAN act as a rifle to project the gunk up into your ceiling...

 

[Just-a-Guy]

Thanks, Bernard. It seems to have settled into a state of bubbling pretty hard but not pushing anything up through the top. It looks like some of the fruit has actually settled into the must. So I guess I'm ok.

 

[sour_grapes]

I think Bernard is correct -- the bentonite provided nucleation sites for the saturated CO2 solution.

 

[Putterrr]

Going forward, dont add anything to your carboy immediately after racking to secondary. See how you batch reacts as you have disturbed everythinbg. If you do add things, do it slowly. Second, dont top up at this stage. There is still co2 being released so that will protect your wine. I usually rack over at 1.000.

At least you did not have to clean the ceiling as others have posted when the airlock blew off their carboys

cheers

 

[Dominic1920]

This reminds me of the mead forum where they describe a MEA (mead explosion accidents) happens when you disturb the mead causing it to degas suddenly. Apparently staggered nutrient addition can cause MEA's that compare to mentos and diet coke. Degassing beforehand seems to prevent that.

 

[Boatboy24]

I believe the technical term for what you have there is a volcano.

More than likely, you created nucleation points. At 1.006 I wouldn't expect it to get that riled up from racking.

 

[vacuumpumpman]

Just-a-Guy-
I know how you must feel - Here is a picture of my pumpkin wine that kept overflowing and would not stop !! I originally started out with those 2 - 15 gallon fermenters approx 3/4 full at the most

 

[BernardSmith]

Steve, Your photo reminds me of the scene in the Disney movie of the sorcerer's apprentice....I can imagine you racing around to find another empty bucket after the last half dozen have been filled....

I Think the secret is to add anything to an empty carboy and then rack onto the addition rather than add the addition to a full carboy. Not sure that adding to the empty carboy in fact reduces the nucleation effect but it does mean that you can control the flow of liquid in and so allow the particles to nucleate in a far smaller volume and so not have major volcanic eruptions...

 

[vacuumpumpman]

This started happening around 10 pm - I could not fix this situation till morning and I used some anti foam from the LHBS - which I was waiting at the front door as he unlocked it.
Eventually I threw it out - not sure what went wrong ? I used a different type of pumpkin this time. I took a year break this year and will go for it again next fall.

 

[Just-a-Guy]

OK, so 24 hours later, it looks like this. Most of the fruit has settled and it is sort of bubbling gently. Ya reckon it'll be ok?

 

[Boatboy24]

Looks like all is well.

 

[Putterrr]

Give it a good stir and see.

kidding of course

cheers

 

[Treeman]

Probably just degassing still, but what are your plans for controlling MLF? Have you added Kmeta? What is pH?

 

[Just-a-Guy]

Thanks again, guys. In past batches, I have mixed up a bentonite mix (boiled in a small amount of water for 15-20 mins), and poured that into the ingoing carboy first, then racked on top of that. That has not given me any problems (and those wines have cleared well). I think I'll stick with that method in the future.

I don't really know what MLF is. Any help would be appreciated.

I don't have a PH meter, no idea what the PH is. Saving my pennies for that. Should I be concerned here?

I did add 1/4 ts of meta when I mixed it. Did not add more when I racked it (less than two weeks).

 

[Treeman]

MLF is malolactic fermentation. Bacteria will convert malic acid in wine to lactic acid and CO2. This MLF process is common for red wines to reduce tartness from malic acid, sometimes used for chardonnay to reduce acid tartness and add buttery character, and not common for riesling, sauv blanc, gewurtz, and other whites. Also not generally done in kit wines even if they are reds.

Not sure what style you want in your apricot wine, but I would lean toward some acidity balanced with backsweetening, so I would try to stop MLF from getting started.

To keep MLF from starting, you need to add kmeta, or lysozyme to kill off the bacteria. Kmeta is only "practically" effective when pH is lower then ~3.7. So if you don't know the pH, it is hard to know if the 1/4 tsp you added was enough. You can add lysozyme at around 0.5 g/L (500 ppm), but if you add bentonite to clear the wine, it removes the lysozyme.....mother nature is cruel sometimes.

I would suggest investing in a pH meter either new or via ebay/craigslist. This way you can be more confident that your adding enough kmeta to keep the MLF bacteria under control.

 

[Just-a-Guy]

MLF is malolactic fermentation. Bacteria will convert malic acid in wine to lactic acid and CO2. This MLF process is common for red wines to reduce tartness from malic acid, sometimes used for chardonnay to reduce acid tartness and add buttery character, and not common for riesling, sauv blanc, gewurtz, and other whites. Also not generally done in kit wines even if they are reds.

Not sure what style you want in your apricot wine, but I would lean toward some acidity balanced with backsweetening, so I would try to stop MLF from getting started.

To keep MLF from starting, you need to add kmeta, or lysozyme to kill off the bacteria. Kmeta is only "practically" effective when pH is lower then ~3.7. So if you don't know the pH, it is hard to know if the 1/4 tsp you added was enough. You can add lysozyme at around 0.5 g/L (500 ppm), but if you add bentonite to clear the wine, it removes the lysozyme.....mother nature is cruel sometimes.

I would suggest investing in a pH meter either new or via ebay/craigslist. This way you can be more confident that your adding enough kmeta to keep the MLF bacteria under control.

That is one of the most helpful posts I've read, thank you for the concise explanation. I guess the ph meter is probably my next investment.