Big batch of bochet

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Well, I've borrowed my friend's great big crawfish boiling pot and gas burner. That thing gets nice and hot. Unfortunately I didn't think about (or perhaps take the warnings I've read seriously) the BEES! My god, my driveway looks like it's got a swarm happening right now, lol. I just slammed the lid onto the pot and turned off the gas and ran inside.

I live in the house in the middle of several lemon orchards, guess I should have seen that coming. Luckily the honey is still it a very light phase, it was just starting to boil. I'm likely going to have to wait till they clear out and then bring the pot inside for the stovetop.

Four gallons of wildflower honey, this is an adventure already. I'll keep you all posted.

 

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Pot won't fit on the stovetop. I think this is going to wait till sundown.

 

[Julie]

Roflmao, good luck and yes please let us know how you make out.

I have never had Bouchet, what does this taste like and I'm assuming it is worth the Battle of the Bees!

 

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You know, I've never had it either! But I read this on Polarhug's thread, "Bochet – a mead where the honey is burned to yield toffee, chocolate, marshmallow flavors..." and just knew what I was going to make next. I love caramelized sugar, and I have lots of empty carboys. The bees have buzzed off, but I'm sure they'll be back if I return to it now. I've taken the time to sterilize everything and go ahead and rack 10 gallons of strawberry wine that is starting to settle out.
Can't wait to get back to it! I'm using a wildflower honey, and it started out pretty dark unfortunately, so I'll have to go by smell and taste (cooled of course).

 

[Polarhug]

Good luck and keep us updated on the process!

 

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WOW! What a smell.
I cooked it just to where it began to smoke, then poured 4 gallons of water on it to stop it cooking. Got it in primaries now, lalvin 71B, and 1.090 @ about 91 F. (1.095?)

 

[seth8530]

Very interesting topic you have going on here. Pictures would be greatly appreciated! Sound like a very promising project to me. So, you have about 8 gallons of product going right now?

 

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Yeah, that sounds about right. For some reason I thought it would be more, but with a recipe like this (just the water and honey basically) I don't like to fixate on how much I think I'm going to get and just add water to the SG I want. I think it was in my head that I'd get a lot more though, because I got 10 gallons of cyser from 2 gallons of honey. But I wasn't really considering the sugar in the apple cider.. I guess I'll know how much is in there when I rack it into the carboys.

Here are pictures of one of the primaries- I got two about the same amount. I pitched the yeast when still warm, and it's going nuts already. Looks like a giant Guinness!

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

You are going to have to invest in a beesuit for your next batch, and get the leather gloves that come with the suit, they would protect you during the stirring part. Are you going to let it ferment down to dry or step feed it more caremalized honey? We had used a dark wildflower in our Bochet and it turned black so I dont think you using a dark honey at the start is going to make any problems. Did you pull samples out and put on a white plate as you went or just waited until you had smoke signals?

WVMJ

 

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You think I should feed it more? I was thinking not to, but every time I go into the wine room now, the smell is so wonderfully strong, I think it could carry a higher ABV..
I didn't pull any color samples, just saw the first sign of smoke, stirred it and the smoke stopped- etc. Third time I saw smoke I shut it off and added the water. I've cooked with sugar lots, and I think it can burn fast once the water is out the heat is up there. I panicked a little, thought I put the water on too soon for a second, but the smell (and taste) of it is so nice I'm happy with the way it came out.

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

4 gallons of honey, even after cooking, should have given you more like 15 gallons of must at 1.095 instead of 8. Did you really stir the snot out of it when you mixed up your must, like with a drill or just a big paddle? WVMJ

WOW! What a smell.
I cooked it just to where it began to smoke, then poured 4 gallons of water on it to stop it cooking. Got it in primaries now, lalvin 71B, and 1.090 @ about 91 F. (1.095?)

 

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4 gallons of honey, even after cooking, should have given you more like 15 gallons of must at 1.095 instead of 8. Did you really stir the snot out of it when you mixed up your must, like with a drill or just a big paddle? WVMJ

OK, yeah that's more like what I was thinking I'd wind up with. I may HAVE actually. I was just adding the water to the primaries to the number I was looking for and not even keeping track. Actually, now that I think about it, I think where that 8 gallons number came from was just Seth adding up my 4 gallons of honey and then 4 gallons of water I mentioned adding to the pot. But that's nowhere near all the water I added (later in the bucket, more cool water went in), so I'm pretty sure that's wrong. I just didn't notice till now where he got that from, but now I see it. Just following what I mentioned, right Seth?

But since you mention that, I'll go check it again, just to be sure (gravity I mean)- It certainly can't hurt to whisk in more oxygen if nothing else.

BRB

 

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Ok, was the must too sweet but not stirred well? Or did I have way more than 8 gallons?

Both, lol.
Stirred it for quite a while, measured again and it was at 1.120! Honey don't mix easy does it.
Somewhere about 4 gallons later (total between the two primaries) and I'm now at 1.100, think I'll stick with that actually.

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

And that is after the yeast ate some of it tonight. I use one of those drill mounted stirrers and whip all of our meads up to make sure, especially with the Bochet as you have thickened the honey it takes a little more effort but well worth it. I made extra caremalized honey for backsweetening, added it to our little 3 gallon batch, its been one of the hardest batches we have made not to go ahead and bottle it so we can start drinking it now, sort of like making that first batch of wine ever and wanting to start drinking it right after it cleared I have exhausted my honey allowance for the next year already but if my bees work out well this year a bigger batch of Bochet will be on the list. WVMJ

 

[seth8530]

Yeah, thats where I got my numbers from. Looks like you did not get the honey evenly mixed.My method of avoiding that is using an arm paddle to stir the must that way you can actually feel the clumps of honey and makes sure they get mixed in.

I really like how your project looks. How many gallons do you think you really have? My guess is your sg was prob around 1.130 so it might end up kind of hot and needing prolonged aging.. But as is life eh? Either that or your yeast might poop out early.

 

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Initially when you said 8 gallons, I kind of got sad and thought you knew the theoretical yield to be that based on how much honey I used. Then I re-read my own words and realized that essentially, I told you that, lol. But I just wasn't very clear.

Yeah, actually I don't mind if it takes a great deal of aging, my hope is that it will be able to age a great deal of time even if it means we won't want to drink it right away.
Had another project going (in clearing stages now) that was a cyser which is about that strong too. It went totally dry and then I gave it some wisteria blossoms as well as some oak. It's about 10 gallons, so between these two I may have to buy more carboys, lol. I would guess that I will have about 14-15 gallons from this batch, so that's ~5 carboys (between these two meads!) that can't be used for the next year or two.

If it was 1.130, that means .01 got eaten by the yeast before I measured it later and found it 1.120 right? so that would mean that my OG (after adding water later) equates to around 1.110? If so that would yield around 14-15% ABV? I'd be ok with that..

 

[seth8530]

Depends on how much water you decided to add to it. I am not sure how much you decided to add. 14-15% is manageable. Especially if you give it some oak or something.

 

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Oak is the plan. Any recommendations? I've barely even explored the options, though I've used medium toast cubes in a couple wines. I liked them but I don't think I used them long enough. Was nervous I was going to wreck them with it by overdoing it..

I noticed you used Hungarian in your port. Liked it?

Also what would the practical benefit of using a small barrel be, or is there any?

 

[seth8530]

I like Hungarian oak alot. It adds peppery and leather notes as well as a pleasant in general smokiness. I recommend about 3oz of CUBES for around 5-6 gallons with not particular timeline on how long to leave them in. Different kinds of oaks might lend more vanilla flavours. I really like the effect it has had on my "port" I am using heavy toast french oak in my mead right now. Not sure how that will end up but we shall see. I think the heavier the toast the more vanilla.
Wade posted this. I am pretty sure he borrowed it from someone else first though.

French Oak Flavor Summary

All toast levels have a perceived aromatic sweetness and full mouthfeel.
French oak has a fruity, cinnamon/allspice character, along with custard/ crème brûlée, milk chocolate and campfire/roasted coffee notes*. (*Especially at higher toast levels.)
As the toast levels increased the fruity descriptor for the wine changed from fresh to jammy to cooked fruit/raisin in character.
American Oak Flavor Summary
The American oak had aromatic sweetness and a campfire/roasted coffee attribute present in all three toast levels, with Medium Plus and Heavy toast having the highest intensity.
American oak had cooked fruit more than a fresh or jammy quality.
American Oak imparted mouthfeel/fullness, especially in Medium Plus.
Hungarian Oak Flavor Summary
The Hungarian oak at Medium toast displayed a high perceived-vanillin content, with roasted coffee, bittersweet chocolate and black pepper characters.
Medium Plus and Heavy toast imparted mouthfeel fullness, with only a slight amount of campfire/roasted coffee. Heavy also had pronounced vanillin. At all toast levels, there were unique attributes such as leather and black pepper, not observed in other oak origins.
Some applicable generalizations of toast levels on oak
The lower the toast, the more tannins (“structure”) and lactones (“wood-like” and “coconut”) will be present in each of the oaks.
The higher the toast, the more spice and smoke notes will be present.
The deeper the toast, the more deep the caramel tones will be (moving into butterscotch at medium plus).
Vanilla will increase up through a medium-plus toast and then decrease with a heavy toast and char.
American oak will be more aromatic, but French oak will give more structure (Hungarian will give less than the French but more than the American).
The greater the toast level, the lower the lactones (“wood” and “coconut”) for all three woods.
Medium plus is the most complex of all of the toast levels, and the most popular.

I honestly would recommend oak cubes over a small barrel, but that is just because I know more about cubes and also I think it is a lot harder to over oak with cubes.

 

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That sounds great! Hungarian sounds like the thing for the bochet flavors. I'll order some ahead of time.