Barrel schedule

[sdelli]

I have read some threads that say not to run wine kit through the same barrels that a batch of wine that went through malolactic fermentation had already used that same barrel. Is this true? If so then why? What difference does this make if the malolactic fermentation has been completed and bulk aged in a carboy with kmeta for a period of time afterwards? I have just ordered some barrels from Vadai and plan on running a rotation of different wines through one of the 6 gallon barrels. From reading it looks like the agreed rotation is 2-4 weeks, 6-8 weeks, 10-12 weeks, 14-16 weeks and so on.... Last question is at what level should I expect the barrel to be done? I am thinking after it reaches a 20 week run? That would be the number 5 run of wine through it.....

 

[robie]

I have read some threads that say not to run wine kit through the same barrels that a batch of wine that went through malolactic fermentation had already used that same barrel. Is this true? If so then why? What difference does this make if the malolactic fermentation has been completed and bulk aged in a carboy with kmeta for a period of time afterwards? I have just ordered some barrels from Vadai and plan on running a rotation of different wines through one of the 6 gallon barrels. From reading it looks like the agreed rotation is 2-4 weeks, 6-8 weeks, 10-12 weeks, 14-16 weeks and so on.... Last question is at what level should I expect the barrel to be done? I am thinking after it reaches a 20 week run? That would be the number 5 run of wine through it.....

If a wine went through MLF, then was placed in a barrel, the bacteria (MLB) will stay with the barrel indefinitely. Kit wines, especially, are not supposed to go through MLF, EVER, so it is possible a kit wine can pick up that bacteria and start MLF, anyway.

Me, I believe if you keep the free SO2 level of the wine in the barrel where it is supposed to be, you won't have any problem with an MLF starting. The free SO2 level in a barrel can really fall quickly, so you must monitor it regularly and be prepared to adjust it when needed. I'll also say if you can't accurately measure the free SO2 with a reliable test setup, you shouldn't run a wine through such a barrel if you don't want to risk an MLF. If one is willing to invest in a barrel, one should also be willing to make the investment in a reliable free SO2 test setup.

The oaking schedule will keep getting longer and longer, as you pointed out. When that barrel is considered neutral is when that schedule becomes too long for YOU. 20 weeks is a long time for me but maybe not for you.

Understand that after a barrel becomes neutral, you can still add oak cubes, spirals, staves, ..etc. right in the barrel and still take full advantage of its micro-oxygenation and concentration abilities. These last two (IMO) are more important than the oaking ability of the barrel, especially when it comes to red kit wines, which tend to be thinner (less body). A barrel can make a tremendous difference in such a wine.

 

[sdelli]

Thanks for the response! That helps understand why..... I do own a Vinmetrica 300 and can measure the free so2 very well but I may still keep the kits separate from the others since I have multiple barrels to do so.... So now when I take this barrel out of usage for a few months what should I do to it? Do I need to hit it with sulfer or just clean it?

 

[Boatboy24]

So now when I take this barrel out of usage for a few months what should I do to it? Do I need to hit it with sulfer or just clean it?

MoreWine has a great write up on this.

http://morewinemaking.com/articles/Oak_barrel_care_guide

I personally think it would be a lot easier to simply keep the barrel full, than to store it empty and have to treat/clean it.

 

[ibglowin]

Just keep the barrel full at all times. Way less trouble. It not impossible to run a kit wine after a wine has been in it that has been through MLF but if you can avoid it I would certainly try. Run your kit wines first, then run your MLF wines. As long as you keep the SO2 levels up (they will drop like a rock in a barrel) and add lysozyme as an insurance policy you can get away with it. MAke sure you NEVER add a wine that has had Sorbate added to a barrel with MLB in it though.

 

[robie]

Thanks, Mike, for mentioning the sorbate. I just would never run a sorbated wine through any of my barrels, PERIOD.

 

[sdelli]

MAke sure you NEVER add a wine that has had Sorbate added to a barrel with MLB in it though.

I guess this means never top the barrel off with that type of wine correct?

 

[sdelli]

Not sure why so many people are strong on saying to never let your barrel go empty? Everything I read says it just takes a good rinsing, drying and a sulphur stick to store it..... Am I missing something?

 

[robie]

Not sure why so many people are strong on saying to never let your barrel go empty? Everything I read says it just takes a good rinsing, drying and a sulphur stick to store it..... Am I missing something?

Once the barrel goes dry, it starts to shrink. It takes some effort to get it to hold liquid again. I let a barrel go dry recently

My last barrel I let dry up, when I put water in it from the shower hose (not much volume), the water would run out of the bottom of the barrel faster that it would go in, so the barrel would not even come close to filling up with water. After several attempts and wetting down the barrel's outside, the staves eventually started swelling again. Over a few days, the barrel finally filled up with water. Then it took several more days before it was again water tight.

Another problem - if you lite a sulfur stick in the barrel while it is still wet, you can end up with sulfuric acid in the barrel.

Keeping it full will avoid these issues.

 

[sdelli]

Doesn't all kit wine have sorbate in it?

 

[robie]

Doesn't all kit wine have sorbate in it?

Yes, but adding sorbate is not totally necessary unless the wine will be backsweetened with sugar or an F pack. Many of us never ever add the sorbate to a kit that is going to be left dry.

Always add the sorbate to an off-dry wine. Never run such a wine through a barrel that might ever be utilized for a wine that will have an MLF done.

The problem is sorbate, mixed with an mlf'ed wine will likely have a very serious flaw caused by a nasty geranium taste. They just don't mix!

 

[sdelli]

Probably another reason to just keep the kit wine in a barrel of its own....

Thanks!

 

[sdelli]

One last thought... I have one batch of Syrah that went through malolactic and two kits that did not... How about if I put the Syrah in a new barrel first then the kits after... Then just keep this barrel for kits only in the future? Or keep the Kits in a barrel that has only seen kits?

 

[jimmyjames23]

Do you sulphur burn your barrels?

 

[Runningwolf]

Yes, once a month if empty.

 

[robie]

How about if I put the Syrah in a new barrel first then the kits after... Then just keep this barrel for kits only in the future?

That will work!

Another approach is if you like to make a (dry, non-sorbated) white, you can first ferment the white in the brand new barrel to give the barrel some special character that only fermentation can provide. Then start running your reds through the barrel. Unfortunately, once a red has been in the barrel, you can never run a white through it again... unless you like red-tinted whites.

 

[sdelli]

Can someone help clear something up for me...

A.) Putting a mlf wine in a barrel will possibly damage it if the barrel had previous wine kits with sorbate in it.

B.) Putting a wine kit that had sorbate in it in a barrel when the barrel had been use with a wine that went through mlf could damage the wine kit.

C.) Both

 

[ibglowin]

B)

You can do (A) as long as your rinse the barrel well before hand. MLB can metabolize sorbate which produces a very bad smelling odor of dead geraniums in the wine.