Apple Wine F Pack Question

[CoastalEmpireWine]

Hello, I made 5 US gallons of apple wine about 7 months ago. After it completed fermentation, I racked it, added Campden tablets and so forth. About 3 months later my wife racked it (due to me currently being deployed to Afghanistan), added 5 campden tablets. I asked her to give it a tase as it has been aging for 6 months now. She said it tastes really good (boosted my ego, HAHA) but didnt have much apple flavor to it. I made it from 100% Mott's apple juice (cheating I know, but with deployment coming up at that time I needed the quick route) and added about 10lbs of apples to it (granny smith). I didnt really follow any recipe, just kinda went with what I knew (S.G., acid level, pH level and etc.) I attached pictures just for reference. I have not ran it through a filter yet, but planned on running it through my Buon Vino mini jet filter when I return.

My question is, how do I go about building a F Pack that will return the apple flavor to the wine? I've heard about using apple concentrate and simmering it down. Does anyone have any direct guidance on how to do this? Also, should I add the f pack, then filter? or the other way around? Thank you for your time.

 

[Kraffty]

I used one can thawed frozen concentrate to a 5 gal batch and was pleased with the result. 2 cans would be ok too I think, depends on personal taste. Add before filter or aging further. Hurry back safely.
Mike

 

[Arne]

When you next draw a glass, add a bit of sugar to it. Normally that will bring some of the flavor back out. Arne.

 

[seth8530]

You could add sugar, which would give some flavour back.. I would be careful about boiling down too much when creating an F-Pack since you can lose a lot of the nice wonderful fruit flavours by the harsh boiling.... but sometimes you can gain some rather interesting ones in the process.. If you want to be faithful to the fruit you are using you could get some fresh squeezed apple juice (perhaps not so freshly squeezed as an alternative) and stick it in the freezer until it thaws.. Then let it unthaw and capture the liquid from the ice juice mix. The juice that is liquid should have more sugar in it than the rest of the juice... After a few runs of this you might end up with enough to sweeten up your wine.............



Or you could simply take some apple juice and boil the tar out of it and back sweeten with that. Just by god... No cloves...

 

[CoastalEmpireWine]

When you next draw a glass, add a bit of sugar to it. Normally that will bring some of the flavor back out. Arne.

My wife decided to take your advice. Though honestly im sure she loves being the guinea pig, caused she gets to drink all of my wine. She found that 1/2 teaspoon in a wine glass made the flavor come out more and gave the wine an excellent taste. So I did the math and this is what I came up with. There are 3 glasses of wine (typically) in a bottle of wine. There are 25 bottles in 5 U.S. Gallons of wine so here is the math: 1/2teaspoon per glass*3 glasses per bottle=1.5 per bottle*25 bottles=37.5 teaspoons for 5 U.S. gallons.

I did further math and found that 36 teaspoons equals 3/4 cup. But I also remembered that there is a little more than 5 gallons in the carboy, i added some to remove the headspace to keep the wine from oxidizing. So I am sure 3/4 cup and 4 teaspoons should do the trick quite well.

Does anyone see any flaws with this? Thanks everyone for their help

 

[ffemt128]

I would go a little on the light side with the sugar addition, add 1/2 cup, then have her try it. You can always add more later but you can't take it back out. Have your wife draw off some wine and warm it in a pot. Disolve the sugar in this so that you won't be diluting if you disolve the sugar into heated water. Also make sure you add Potassium Sorbate to the wine prior to back sweetening or you may run the risk of fermentation starting again.

You could also add frozen apple juice concentrate, already concentrated, no need to further simmer down. This would add apple flavor as well as sugar to back sweeten.

Another option if after adding the sugar to back sweeten would be to get the apple concentrate flavoring that the brew stores sell and add a small quantity of that for flavor. Heres a link from our local store..

http://www.southhillsbrewing.com/extract-apple?filter_name=Apple

 

[seth8530]

My wife decided to take your advice. Though honestly im sure she loves being the guinea pig, caused she gets to drink all of my wine. She found that 1/2 teaspoon in a wine glass made the flavor come out more and gave the wine an excellent taste. So I did the math and this is what I came up with. There are 3 glasses of wine (typically) in a bottle of wine. There are 25 bottles in 5 U.S. Gallons of wine so here is the math: 1/2teaspoon per glass*3 glasses per bottle=1.5 per bottle*25 bottles=37.5 teaspoons for 5 U.S. gallons.

I did further math and found that 36 teaspoons equals 3/4 cup. But I also remembered that there is a little more than 5 gallons in the carboy, i added some to remove the headspace to keep the wine from oxidizing. So I am sure 3/4 cup and 4 teaspoons should do the trick quite well.

Does anyone see any flaws with this? Thanks everyone for their help

Your math seems good, one thing I would be careful about is the glass size. The standard wine glass should be around 4 oz when properly filled while a glass that is 1/3 of a bottle is around 8 ozs. Make sure that the glass she tasted the sugar in really had 8 oz of wine in it or you could be badly off on how much sugar you end up adding in.... I find a better way to do this is by taking a hydrometer to the sample once I find a good taste and then adding enough sugar to hit that mark in the large carboy...

And remember, you can always add more in later. I aged a mead one time for nearly a year and then badly over sweetened it. Needless to say, it was not near as good as it should of been.

 

[Turock]

Seven months for apple is pretty young. The best apple wine I ever had was 6 years old. I'm not saying you need to age it THAT long. But 1-2 years is better than 7 months. The flavor really firms up even better with more time.

 

[saramc]

Remember to make sure sample is tasted at the serving temp for that wine as it will impact the taste perception. And if you will not be bottling within the next month I would hold off on sweetening until you are closer to bottling time. The more it bulk ages the less backsweetening you may find it needs. A 6" vanilla bean, split, and dropped in carboy will do a lot or even a bit of medium toasted oak.

If you can get WinepressUS to open (for the last two days I have not been able to get the WP Forum to even open), you can take a look at the thread called SUGAR NOTES and it has a lot of useful info plus a guide on tasting trial for backsweetening. http://www.winepress.us/forums/index.php?/topic/39981-sugar-notes/

 

[CoastalEmpireWine]

By the time I get home it will be a little over 10 months old. You guys think the best idea is to wait those extra months and taste it then? It wont be bottled until I return from Afghanistan. She said it is really good now, but not as sweet as she usually likes it. Im thinking of going the route of adding sugar and then some apple extract. I believe that this would be the best route.

 

[CoastalEmpireWine]

Your math seems good, one thing I would be careful about is the glass size. The standard wine glass should be around 4 oz when properly filled while a glass that is 1/3 of a bottle is around 8 ozs. Make sure that the glass she tasted the sugar in really had 8 oz of wine in it or you could be badly off on how much sugar you end up adding in.... I find a better way to do this is by taking a hydrometer to the sample once I find a good taste and then adding enough sugar to hit that mark in the large carboy...

And remember, you can always add more in later. I aged a mead one time for nearly a year and then badly over sweetened it. Needless to say, it was not near as good as it should of been.

Right, I get what you are saying but if she truly didnt have 8 ounces in there then my math would be not enough sugar. How long do you think I should age it before I try to sweeten it? I planned on bottling it not too long after I get home. I doubt she had anything near 8 ounces in there. I fill my wine glass to the brim and usually get 3 glasses per bottle, but thats how i like to drink mine. I do not believe that 8 ounces would be enough for a hydrometer reading. Maybe im wrong. I think I'll have her add the 3/4 cup of sugar then have her taste it. If it still a little weak ill let the wine sit for another 3 months, then have her try it again. What do you think i should do, wait, or add the small amount of sugar?

 

[CoastalEmpireWine]

I just got a hold of the wife, and she said "the picture of the wine glass is how much wine that the glass had when I added the sugar." So obviously she didnt have anywhere near 8 ounces.. So my measurements of how much sugar to add would be way low to where it needs to be

 

[seth8530]

Right, I get what you are saying but if she truly didnt have 8 ounces in there then my math would be not enough sugar. How long do you think I should age it before I try to sweeten it? I planned on bottling it not too long after I get home. I doubt she had anything near 8 ounces in there. I fill my wine glass to the brim and usually get 3 glasses per bottle, but thats how i like to drink mine. I do not believe that 8 ounces would be enough for a hydrometer reading. Maybe im wrong. I think I'll have her add the 3/4 cup of sugar then have her taste it. If it still a little weak ill let the wine sit for another 3 months, then have her try it again. What do you think i should do, wait, or add the small amount of sugar?

Right, nothing wrong with liking a big glass just for the use of measurement we need to know how much wine was in there.

My advice, wait until you get back and taste it. Then stabilize it with Kmeta and sorbate. Then, take a sample of wine and add sugar to it until you find what taste best. Once you have done that you can take a hydrometer reading and add enough sugar to the whole sample to hit that mark. Also, you might consider playing with acid as well as sugar at this phase. I made a peach wine that was rather boring yet peachy all the same and found that by adding acid to it I was able to bring a whole new life to the wine. So something there to consider.

As others have suggested a little bit of oak could be an interesting thing.. Just by god no cloves!

 

[CoastalEmpireWine]

Right, nothing wrong with liking a big glass just for the use of measurement we need to know how much wine was in there.

My advice, wait until you get back and taste it. Then stabilize it with Kmeta and sorbate. Then, take a sample of wine and add sugar to it until you find what taste best. Once you have done that you can take a hydrometer reading and add enough sugar to the whole sample to hit that mark. Also, you might consider playing with acid as well as sugar at this phase. I made a peach wine that was rather boring yet peachy all the same and found that by adding acid to it I was able to bring a whole new life to the wine. So something there to consider.

As others have suggested a little bit of oak could be an interesting thing.. Just by god no cloves!

What kind of acid change did you do, and how did it affect the flavor? She is going to wait until I get home, that way I can help her with this. She doesnt know how to read a hydrometer. I plan on making these changes when I get home, then bottling. I'm still new at making wine, and any advise helps. Thank you for your help.

 

[Turock]

I think your plan to sweeten and add juice to it is a good one. Don't forget to add a little more meta to it along with sorbate. Not sure what level of sweetness you're shooting for but sugar will bring out some additional notes that you might not taste when it's dry.

Be sure to add the juice FIRST--then tweak it with a little more sugar if needed.

 

[saramc]

I would recommend spending $7 and buying an acid test kit and check the TA of your finished wine before you randomly start chucking acid into the carboy. Plus, you will now have the kit for future batches.

 

[seth8530]

What kind of acid change did you do, and how did it affect the flavor? She is going to wait until I get home, that way I can help her with this. She doesnt know how to read a hydrometer. I plan on making these changes when I get home, then bottling. I'm still new at making wine, and any advise helps. Thank you for your help.

I used an acid test kit to test the TA on my peach wine. I found out that my TA was .2 so I then said well .6-.7 is what is recommended for fruit wine so I added enough acid blend to get close to that TA in my sample and tasted. From there I kept playing with how much acid I wanted by taste before taking a TA reading of what I thought tasted best for future reference (.7 on that batch).

 

[CoastalEmpireWine]

Yea, i tested the pH before I left but never tested for acid level. I know pH and acid levels go hand in hand. I ordered an acid testing kit and i will adjust to the correct amount when I get home. The wife doesnt fully understand exactly how to do things. Im trying to get her into my obsession so that we will have a hobby together, which i think would be awesome. I appreciate everyones help with this. Thank you all very much.

 

[seth8530]

Very nice! I am also trying to do the same thing and I think it is working.

 

[Turock]

Just a side note here on acid adjustment. If you plan to stay with the hobby, and you make a lot of fruit wines, you would do yourself a big favor by buying a PH meter. You should be testing and adjusting the must PRE-FERMENT---then you will always have good, balanced wines. A PH meter will give you a finite reading(with only small error margins.)

Some may disagree with this statement, but we ignore the TA on fruit wines--we go by PH only. All fruit needs SOME sort of acid adjustment. Test everything pre-ferment and adjust it and you'll avoid all the acrobatics of trying to balance your wines when you're trying to bottle them. All winemaking happens at the primary---post ferment you should only be TWEAKING, at the worst case.