Anyone think this will turn out?

[calvin]

I whipped up a gallon batch of what I plan on calling orange chocolate a$$ kick. Put the recipe together on the fly

3 cans concentrated orange juice
4 tablespoons unsweetened cocoa
4 1/2 c sugar
1 tsp yeast nutrient
1/2 tsp yeast energizer
1/2 tsp pectic enzyme
1/4 tsp wine tannin
Pinch of potassium metabisulphite
Watered to 4 liters. Actually a little more. I like to start with a little extra to make up for lost volume during rackings

Sg 1.135

Tomorrow I will pitch the yeast. I'm thinking lavlin 1118
Potential alcohol around 18%

Anyone think this will be drinkable?


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[grapeman]

The trickiest part will be to get it fermenting with a high beginning specific gravity. Make a yeast starter to get it going and it should be fine. As to how it will turn out??? It probably will be fine. Keep us informed of the progress.

 

[BernardSmith]

I would try to measure the acidity (pH) of this must. The OJ will be very acidic. What is the usual dilution of the OJ for everyday drinking purposes? You might find this a very bitter tasting wine which may need to be backsweetened to balance the acidity from the oranges. (your proposed ABV suggests that you want this to ferment dry)

 

[JohnT]

I agree with BS. My main concern would be that it is too acidic and may inhibit your yeast. I would consider, perhaps, holding back on some of the OJ until you are really cooking (much like you do when making skeeter pee).

 

[grapeman]

I disagree about the pH being too low. 3 cans of concentrate in 4.5 quarts of water yields a normal juice concentration (1.5 quarts per can). The average pH of orange juice is 3.5 which is about perfect. The main acid in orange juice is citric acid which is not as sharp as malic acid on the tongue. Checking the pH is always a good idea, but in this case I don't think it will be too low. If it is too tart when done, sweetening before bottling (with proper stabalization) would take care of that.

 

[BernardSmith]

I agree with BS. My main concern would be that it is too acidic and may inhibit your yeast. I would consider, perhaps, holding back on some of the OJ until you are really cooking (much like you do when making skeeter pee).

That was my first concern (too low a pH will put a real strain on the yeast), but Calvin might be able to fix that by adding more base (alkalai) to the must - I never remember if calcium carbonate is preferred before fermentation or potassium carbonate or if either will do

 

[JohnT]

The average pH of orange juice is 3.5 which is about perfect.

Grapeman, I can not tell you how impressed I am that you knew the average PH of OJ. I figured it to be much lower than that.

 

[chazwel]

Grapeman, I can not tell you how impressed I am that you knew the average PH of OJ. I figured it to be much lower than that.

GM is da man.....................

 

[grapeman]

skeeter pee is made from lemon juice which has a pH of 2.4 to 2.9 so it is much more acidic than orange juice at 3.5 . I don't remember all of the fruit pH's, but rely on charts that have been made giving the figures. That way when I consider a wine from something, I check the chart to get an idea of the average and if it looks to be way too low (like lemons) I will measure and adjust if necessary.

 

[BernardSmith]

skeeter pee is made from lemon juice which has a pH of 2.4 to 2.9 so it is much more acidic than orange juice at 3.5 . I don't remember all of the fruit pH's, but rely on charts that have been made giving the figures. That way when I consider a wine from something, I check the chart to get an idea of the average and if it looks to be way too low (like lemons) I will measure and adjust if necessary.

But the dilution is not in 4 gallons of water but 4 Liters, according to Calvin. Three cans of concentrate in 4 liters is about 1 gallon and a pint or thereabouts... so the pH won't be 3.5, would it? Which is why I asked what the normal dilution of those cans would be. Does one can make 1.3 L of OJ or does 1 can make 1 gallon?

 

[grapeman]

Bernard, that was a typo on my part when my mind said quart and fingers typed gallon - that is 4.5 quarts- a bit over a gallon as he stated. Like I said dilution is generally one can to make a quart and a half- 3 cans times 1.5 quarts per can gives 4.5 quarts or a bit over a gallon. If you don't believe me about the pH of orange juice - look it up. Of course there is some variation- there always is with any type of fruit. Also the exact amount made depends on the size of the can so if the can is bigger, the pH could be lower making it a bit more acidic, so the argument could go on....................

 

[peaches9324]

That was my first concern (too low a pH will put a real strain on the yeast), but Calvin might be able to fix that by adding more base (alkalai) to the must - I never remember if calcium carbonate is preferred before fermentation or potassium carbonate or if either will do

This is basically the same question I have Grapeman can you please explain the two of these as I am not sure of what the uses are?

 

[grapeman]

Calcium carbonate is use pre-fermentation, potassium bicarbonate is used post fermentation, but I would not use either in this case as I do not believe it is needed and certainly would not use without verifying the pH first.

 

[calvin]

wow, thanks for the input guys! I'm surprised at the interest in my thread. 1 can of concentrate is supposed to yield 48 OZ. of juice, so I mixed it a hair stronger than you typically would for regular orange juice. If it ferments dry i may back sweeten depending on taste.

Anyone try anything like this before?
I'm real curios to see how it turns out

 

[BernardSmith]

Bernard, that was a typo on my part when my mind said quart and fingers typed gallon - that is 4.5 quarts- a bit over a gallon as he stated. Like I said dilution is generally one can to make a quart and a half- 3 cans times 1.5 quarts per can gives 4.5 quarts or a bit over a gallon. If you don't believe me about the pH of orange juice - look it up. Of course there is some variation- there always is with any type of fruit. Also the exact amount made depends on the size of the can so if the can is bigger, the pH could be lower making it a bit more acidic, so the argument could go on....................

No problem. I have never used concentrated OJ and had no idea how much a can needs to be diluted. As it happens I have made orange wine from orange juice and the pH was pretty much as you said but dry was too bitter for my taste. My concern with Calvin's recipe was if a can was designed to be reconstituted as a gallon (and again , I had no idea whether it was a gallon or a quart ) then diluting it only to produce a quart would certainly result in more sugar to the gallon but also and a great deal more acidity than would normally be experienced. So there is no endless loop: if the cans were diluted with more or less the quantity of water that produces drinkable OJ then the pH would be typical for oranges.

 

[calvin]

I pitched the yeast yesterday. Looks like it started fermenting almost immediately. The smell is absolutely fantastic. I want to drink it now!


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[calvin]

I checked the gravity this morning. It's already down to 1.052.


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[grapeman]

Sounds like it is progressing fine.

 

[calvin]

If I want to try to Max out the yeast can I just keep adding sugar to the primary? Sg is just under 1.020 as of this morning. If it goes below 1.010 I am thinking about adding sugar to try to keep it at 1.010.

Would that be a ok sweetness level for this type of wine?

Would it be better to try this in the secondary?

Any pointers from those who have tried this before?

How would I keep track of abv if I did this? Could I just take a gravity reading before and after I added the sugar and add the additional sg #'s to the starting sg?


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[sour_grapes]

I know there is an online calculator for step-feeding (which is what one calls what you are contemplating doing). However, I cannot find it. Here is an article that gives some of the basics:

https://www.eckraus.com/wine-making-high-alcohol/