Am I missing anything?

[DAB]

Okay, so, Malolactic Fermentation is complete per Chromatography Test.

PH 3.53

Added 6.98 Camden tablets of Potassium Metabisufite

(40ppm x 15 (gal) x .0064) = 3.84 grams / .55 per Camden tablet = 6.98 tablets

Thoroughly stirred in 7 crushed tablets

Thinking of adding one toasted stave from a Jack Daniels oak barrel I just purchased from Home Depot.

So, we're officially aging the wine, and waiting...I think.

Am I missing anything?

Many thanks,
Newbie

 

[Johnd]

Okay, so, Malolactic Fermentation is complete per Chromatography Test.

PH 3.53

Added 6.98 Camden tablets of Potassium Metabisufite

(40ppm x 15 (gal) x .0064) = 3.84 grams / .55 per Camden tablet = 6.98 tablets

Thoroughly stirred in 7 crushed tablets

Thinking of adding one toasted stave from a Jack Daniels oak barrel I just purchased from Home Depot.

So, we're officially aging the wine, and waiting...I think.

Am I missing anything?

Many thanks,
Newbie

Only thought is really about what wine you are making and your choice of oak, what wine are you making again? Typically, bourbon barrels are not toasted, but charred, and their wood can quickly provide a lot of those types of charred flavors, which can be strong, in addition to the bourbon taste. Granted, you're only using one stave from the barrel, just don't know how quickly or how much of that flavor is imparted, so be cautious if you go that route. Also, since it's presumably been empty a while, and though high ABV bourbon may prevent lots of nasties from growing in there, it may not be like using a new, clean, toasted stave for flavoring, consider some type of sanitizing before dropping it in there.

 

[BernardSmith]

Don't know that the pH tells you very much - only how strong the acids present are. What you really want to know is not their strength but the quantity , and that is measured by TA. It's the TA that tells you how "tart" the wine is and I think you want the TA to be about .6 g/L (or a little higher ).

 

[user 36973]

TA to be about .6 g/L (or a little higher )

(correcting decimal point typo to avoid confusion)

TA to be about 6 g/L (or a little higher

 

[BernardSmith]

My error - thanks I actually meant to write .6% (which is the same as 6 g/L)

 

[DAB]

Johnd,
Chilean Cabernet Sauvignon from whole grapes crushed 5/11/18. And yes, the inside of the barrel is charred. I was thinking of removing (belt sander) the charring and toasting the stave in the oven at 375-400 for four hours. But only after I've let it sit outside for a couple of days in the sun whilst keeping it wet so as to allow the harsh tannins to leach out. Also, plan on soaking oak in Star-san for a bit before lowering in into the fermenter to prevent contamination. What I'm not sure about is how long to leave the oak in the fermenter, except to simply keep tasting it. Thoughts?

Bernard,

Measured the TA this evening (with this test kit--> https://morewinemaking.com/products/emmorewineem-acid-test-kit.htm) and got 6.75. So, I think that sounds close...right?

Lastly, After re-racking it once so far off the gross lees (looked like mostly yeast to me), a week ago, I'm not sure when to rack it next, or how many total times it should be racked altogether. Any thoughts?

Many thanks,
Newbie

 

[Johnd]

As long as you monitor the taste, that’s the concern to focus on. The oak usually falls back a bit after bottling, so push it to the edge. Good luck!!

 

[DAB]

As long as you monitor the taste, that’s the concern to focus on. The oak usually falls back a bit after bottling, so push it to the edge. Good luck!!

Okay, so it is...I'll oak it!

Many thanks,
Newbie

 

[DAB]

So, I added the oak (one stave toasted at 400 degrees for four hours) last week. Today I used my new (Father's Day gift) SO2 tester which suggested 20 ppm for my 15 gallons of "wine." Then, I added an additional 20ppm (for a total of 40ppm) of SO2 by adding 3.6 Camden Tablets...all this to minimize spoilage issues going forward.

Now, I'm waiting for the "wine" to take on a more so sophisticated and enjoyable taste. For now it's too thin, tannic and not sweet enough. Fingers crossed it will get MUCH better with time. Thoughts?

Thanks,
Newbie

 

[user 36973]

Now, I'm waiting for the "wine" to take on a more so sophisticated and enjoyable taste. For now it's too thin, tannic and not sweet enough. Fingers crossed it will get MUCH better with time. Thoughts?

Seeing that the wine is only 1 month from grapes, it is a tad young still.

The fine lees will fall over the next 6 months and you will finally be able to begin to fully appreciate the wine. The tannin will polymerize and soften over time. The oak should add a nice dimension to compliment your wine without overpowering it.

However, it will not be sweet unless you intend to add sorbate and back-sweeten it (warning: MLF + sorbate = geranium taint). If you go this route, you absolutely must keep the sulfite levels high to kill off any residual ML bacteria. This is contrary to the typical style that Cab Sauv is made (unless you have a kangaroo on the label or make a sub $15 California Cab). You may find that as it softens, the fruit flavors will be more apparent and provide that sense of sweetness you are looking for.

 

[DAB]

Seeing that the wine is only 1 month from grapes, it is a tad young still.

The fine lees will fall over the next 6 months and you will finally be able to begin to fully appreciate the wine. The tannin will polymerize and soften over time. The oak should add a nice dimension to compliment your wine without overpowering it.

However, it will not be sweet unless you intend to add sorbate and back-sweeten it (warning: MLF + sorbate = geranium taint). If you go this route, you absolutely must keep the sulfite levels high to kill off any residual ML bacteria. This is contrary to the typical style that Cab Sauv is made (unless you have a kangaroo on the label or make a sub $15 California Cab). You may find that as it softens, the fruit flavors will be more apparent and provide that sense of sweetness you are looking for.

Thank you for that advice...I do appreciate all the helpful voices I've heard from on this site, the learning curve is steep. And so, I will be waiting, not-so-patiently, for those much desired fruit flavors to return. Two questions; 1.) Having already racked it once, what would be the general recommendation about how long before the next racking? 2.) I doubt if my plastic--60L Speidel--fermenter affects this process any differently than glass or stainless steel, but I'm interested to hear general thoughts about this topic.

Many thanks,
DAB the newbie

 

[user 36973]

1.) Having already racked it once, what would be the general recommendation about how long before the next racking?

You'll get a range of advice for this question. My approach is that one you have racked off the gross lees, then subsequent rackings can be much further down the road. I'll rack my wine off the gross lees, let it settle some fine lees out for a month during MLF and rack it into barrels for the next 10 months to age. See note below about sulfites.

2.) I doubt if my plastic--60L Speidel--fermenter affects this process any differently than glass or stainless steel, but I'm interested to hear general thoughts about this topic.

The container plays a large role in micro-oxidation and aging. For glass and stainless, oxygen is effectively prevented from entering the container unless it is introduced when the bung is opened. Wood barrels and plastic containers are permeable to oxygen, so they will allow micro-oxidation to occur as they age. You can even buy plastic maturation tanks from Flextank or thicker plastic holding tanks from them that do not permit as much oxygen through.

While micro-oxidation is necessary to polymerize the tannin in the wine during the aging process, it is important to prevent "macro-oxidation" by keeping your headspace to a minimum, purging out air with a spare tank of CO2, and maintaining sulfite levels at 20-30ppm.

 

[DAB]

Okay, two months after crush and here's where we stand:
PH 2.35 -- seems low.
TA 5.25
Free So2 only 39ppm

Added another 10ppm of SO2 (15 gal x 10 ppm x .0066) to = .99 / .55 Camden tablets = 1.8 tablets. Rounded to 2 tablets, which I dissolved in tap water. After stirring I topped off the fermenter with CO2.

Any concerns?

Thanks,
DAB

 

[Ajmassa]

Yeah man. Ph Seems low. Too low. And not proportionate to the TA. Your numbers early on were on point. But now questionable. Few questions.
How are you testing PH?
How confident are you of the accuracy?
How’s it taste?
TA likely more accurate since your using TA kit by color change.
And Are you still in the spiedel fermentor? Not recommended for long term aging- with more work to keep it protected. Constantly purging a fermentor isn’t ideal. Glass Demijohns are 54L and you could just let it age gracefully at that point without worry.

 

[Johnd]

Yeah man. Ph Seems low. Too low. And not proportionate to the TA. Your numbers early on were on point. But now questionable. Few questions.
How are you testing PH?
How confident are you of the accuracy?
How’s it taste?
TA likely more accurate since your using TA kit by color change.
And Are you still in the spiedel fermentor? Not recommended for long term aging- with more work to keep it protected. Constantly purging a fermentor isn’t ideal. Glass Demijohns are 54L and you could just let it age gracefully at that point without worry.

AJ’s on point, that pH is suspect. If it’s right, you don’t need much more than 10 ppm sulfite.......but I’d bet money that it’s not that low.

 

[DAB]

Okay, you're both right, the PH does seems too low. And, the meter (a LaMotte Tracer pH PockeTester code 1741) is flashing "RENEW" which, per the manual, means, "...the probe is nearing the end of it's useful life..." which doesn't make sense since it's less than a year old--I'm calling the manufacture tomorrow to see about getting a new one.

As for the fermenter, yes, still in the Spiedel Fermenter, I suppose it's time to rack to 3x 5gal glass bottles.

As for the taste, it seems thin, lacking body and depth, though not a bad flavor mind you. However, certainly NOT the bold red cab taste and mouthfeel I was going for.

Thanks for the great feedback, I really appreciate your time and expertise!!

DAB

 

[Ajmassa]

Jumping into all the chemistry with no background can be a lot. Originally I bought a ph meter and didn’t have a clue about proper care and maintenance. And My 1st one didn’t last long at all just from simply being unaware
Give this a quick read thru about the calibrating , storing in storage solution/4.0buffer solution and all the particulars. Maybe you’ll notice something you didn’t realize. https://morewinemaking.com/web_files/intranet.morebeer.com/files/wphmeter.pdf

 

[DAB]

You're absolutely right...I've been treating the pH meter with tender loving care and per the manufactures instructions--storing it upright, in proper buffer solution, calibrating it, etc.--so this problem is both unexpected and premature...I'm on the road now and will attempt to clean it (using distilled vinegar or rubbing alcohol per--manufactures instructions) upon my return on Friday. I'm hoping the the cleaned pH meter will yield a pH around 3.65...but we shall see.

 

[DAB]

Okay, guys, finally able to clean, reset and recalibrate the pH meter. Now I'm getting a pH of 3.79, which is too high. I believe I'm shooting for 3.65...no? Should I add Tartaric acid?

 

[Johnd]

Not necessarily too high, you can manage a pH of 3.79 if you want to, just need to figure out if you want to. Time for some bench trials / tasting. If adding tartaric acid improves the wine, then by all means, proceed to lower it. But if it’s at its best at 3.79, proper sufiting til you get it in the bottle just isn’t that difficult.