2012 Riesling

[ibglowin]

Bwahahahahahahaha......

You win for the longest hand held crush/destem dude. Congrats (I think!)

Get some sleep!

21 hours later...

Hand de-stemmed ... Check
Hand crushed ... Check
Hand pressed ... Check

 

[Deezil]

Cant sleep yet, no rest for the wicked

Gotta finish cleaning up the juice splatters, get the juice racked off the sediment, put the juice outside & let the blackberries thaw in the skins overnight.. Atleast...

Kinda scared to sleep, i know i'll dream of billions of little green spheres

 

[Deezil]

Woke up to no unwanted-action
All's well so far

Racked off a good bit of sediment last night, let it sit overnight
There's another .5" - 1" of sediment on the bottom but i'm not sure if i should rack off that or not

Last nights sediment is sitting in 3, 1-gallon jugs, clearing out

Yeasts should be at the front door, anytime today

SG/TA to come, in a bit

 

[The_Wine_Gnat]

I am avidly following your progress. Keep the photos and updates coming! Couple of questions for you though.

1.) What vineyard in WA did you source from?
2.) Which yeasts are you planning to go with? I'm hoping you do one carboy with R-HST and one with W-15 b/c that's what I plan to do!
3.) Did you add SO2 or K Sobate to stop natural fermentation? If so how much for each 5gal carboy?
4.) Are you planning on doing Bentonite fining at all? If so, before or after ferm?

Looking forward to seeing the updates!! Good luck!!

 

[Deezil]

I am avidly following your progress. Keep the photos and updates coming! Couple of questions for you though.

1.) What vineyard in WA did you source from?
2.) Which yeasts are you planning to go with? I'm hoping you do one carboy with R-HST and one with W-15 b/c that's what I plan to do!
3.) Did you add SO2 or K Sobate to stop natural fermentation? If so how much for each 5gal carboy?
4.) Are you planning on doing Bentonite fining at all? If so, before or after ferm?

Looking forward to seeing the updates!! Good luck!!

1 - The farm i got the fruit from - found out on Pick-Up that most of their grapes are locked into contracts with some of the larger wineries.. C & M Farms? C & J? Something like that.. Yakima WA area

2 - I just finished opening the package that the R-HST & W15 showed up in.. Also got enough Lallzyme Cuvee Blanc & Lysozyme for this batch. Will most definitely be using both yeast, 1-per-carboy, and blending on the backend a few months / maybe a year from now

3 - Because i did it by hand, SO2 was a must. Probably overshot it a bit, but i hoped to because i was waiting on FedEx for my yeast... 25ml of 10% solution @ crush & another 1/8 tsp K-meta into each carboy before the first racking

4 - With me, fining is a "only if i have to"-type thing.. I have bentonite on hand, but i've never used it.. Also have sparklloid, super kleer, gelatin, & isinglass

 

[The_Wine_Gnat]

The fact that you are so detailed in your Riesling wine making is greatly helping me. As a new winemaker, I am hoping to focus on Rieslings, especially keeping them sweeter without having to chapitalize. I'm very excited for your endeavor!!

1.) How are you monitoring your temps? I'm debating between different types of thermometers currently (floating, adhesive, etc). What temps are you shooting for during fermentation, 50-55F?

2.) Are you keeping some of the un-fermented must to add back in (back sweeten?) later to increase your residual sugar levels? If so, did you freeze it?

3.) Are you using powered SO2? I'm not sure that I understand 25ml of 10% solution... Is that about 1/4 tsp for each 5 gal carboy? I've read 50ppm is the way to go.

4.) What tools do you recommend to take TA/SG?

Gnat

 

[Deezil]

In went the Lallzyme Cuvee Blanc.. If i would have had it when i needed it (my fault), i could have actually let it cold-macerate the grapes, like its supposed to.. But i should still see some benefit from it, this way, i would think.


Never have i been so mad at myself. I swear, all i did - i blinked... The hose came out of the receiving carboy..... Never, have i wanted to strangle myself...

Little less-so now, that i realize it was less than half a gallon.... But riesling is riesling.. And after 21 hours of hard work... Think im looking at 1 nice 5-gallon carboy full & maybe a gallon extra, in the end - dunno how to feel about it..




On a lighter note..

SG - 1.092
TA - .5% - .6%

Yeast starters... Getting started

3.75g per starter, Go-Ferm
1 packet per starter, yeast

Now i have to figure out..

Do i wanna hit the 14-15% ABV?

That'd require siphoning off between 1/2 - 1 gallon of juice, sorbating it.. Chaptalizing the rest up to 15% & adding the reserve on the backend.. But the acidity isnt as high as i hoped, for all that.. I would have to adjust the acidity up a point or two

Or do i leave it at 12.5 % ABV?

Leaning more towards this, because of the acidity.. I dont want to manipulate the grapes too much and lose the original character...

Any input on my not-so-newfound dilemma?

 

[Deezil]

The fact that you are so detailed in your Riesling wine making is greatly helping me. As a new winemaker, I am hoping to focus on Rieslings, especially keeping them sweeter without having to chapitalize. I'm very excited for your endeavor!!

1.) How are you monitoring your temps? I'm debating between different types of thermometers currently (floating, adhesive, etc). What temps are you shooting for during fermentation, 50-55F?

2.) Are you keeping some of the un-fermented must to add back in (back sweeten?) later to increase your residual sugar levels? If so, did you freeze it?

3.) Are you using powered SO2? I'm not sure that I understand 25ml of 10% solution... Is that about 1/4 tsp for each 5 gal carboy? I've read 50ppm is the way to go.

4.) What tools do you recommend to take TA/SG?

Gnat

Appreciate the compliment on being detailed - i try.. My posts on this website have more details than my actual handwritten logs, so... Kinda engrained in me now

1 - I dont have a very surefire way to keep track of my temps, but i do plan on keeping the room just warm enough so the dog isnt visibly shivering (thats my 'its too cold' queue, purple toes are nothing!.. I'm in the basement lol)

2 - I'm figuring out how to cross this bridge, right now.. I was leaning that way when i didnt know "the numbers"... But now that i know, im having a hard time telling myself its okay to mess with a good thing

3 - Powdered K-meta, yep.. ibglowin hipped me to the 10% solution on page 2.. 2.5 grams of k-meta into 25ml of water, made sure it was dissolved well & in it went

4 - my TA test kit just showed up today from MoreWine, with my yeasts, because my previous chemicals were too old and giving false readings - its a pretty simple procedure to take the TA... Hydrometer for SG.. Wish i had a pH meter, that helps with the TA readings

 

[Deezil]

You can see in the Yeast Starter pic above, the pectic enzymes are doing the trick; its even more dramatic now in person.... Bet i have to rack again later just before pitching the yeasts.. Probably somewhere around midnight tonight...

Have until then to figure out this 12.5 ABV vs 15% ABV dilemma

 

[Deezil]

Yeasts are viable

Lallzyme Cuvee Blanc worked

 

[Deezil]

Yeah... R-HST & W15 it is..

From Lallemand:

Lalvin R-HST®: For Riesling and other aromatic whites
R-HST was selected for its exceptional oenological properties in Riesling from trials conducted from 1991 to 1996 in the Heiligenstein region of Austria. R-HST has a short lag phase and generation time, even at cold temperatures. These features allow it to dominate and persist over spoilage yeast such as Kloeckera apiculata. R-HST retains fresh varietal character and emphasizes floral (rose) and mineral characteristics while contributing body and mouthfeel for an overall complexity and elegance. R-HST also produces crisp, premium white and Pinot noir wines which develop well over time.

Lalvin W15™: For clean, low-temperature ferments
W15 was isolated in 1991 from a high-quality Müller Thurgau must at the Viticulture Research Station in Wädenswil, Switzerland. W15 was developed to ferment dry white and red wines at moderate speeds, where bright fruit and good structure are desired due to the production of higher levels of glycerol and succinic acid. Very little heat is generated by W15 during fermentation, reducing the potential for formation of sulfide aromas and good osmotic tolerance has been noted for late harvest fermentations and icewine.

Oh... My... Goodness...
Been smellin the yeast starters

I've had the giggles over the R-HST.. Smells cream-soda-y

The W15 is similiar in smell

If i could put physical terms, to aromas.... The R-HST is softer, mellower, less in-your-face while the W-15 has more of a backbone to the smell; less of the creamy-vanilla-ish smells and more... I dunno the word for it


Added to each carboy:

1.25g Fermaid-O
3.75g Opti-White
3.75g Booster Blanc
2.5g FT Blanc Soft

 

[Deezil]

What's different with these two pictures?

Yeasties are in

 

[The_Wine_Gnat]

3.75g per starter, Go-Ferm
1 packet per starter, yeast

Now i have to figure out..

Do i wanna hit the 14-15% ABV?

That'd require siphoning off between 1/2 - 1 gallon of juice, sorbating it.. Chaptalizing the rest up to 15% & adding the reserve on the backend.. But the acidity isnt as high as i hoped, for all that.. I would have to adjust the acidity up a point or two

Or do i leave it at 12.5 % ABV?

Leaning more towards this, because of the acidity.. I dont want to manipulate the grapes too much and lose the original character...

Any input on my not-so-newfound dilemma?

I would go with a 12.5% ABV for a Riesling, especially one that I believe you are planning to keep sweeter. I don't think I can recall a high alcohol Rielsing that I've had which isn't a late harvest, spatlese, or auslese. Agree with your idea of not manipulating the grapes too much as well.

Follow up question, what do the ingredients listed below that you added to each carboy do? Not familiar with any of them being new and all.

1.25g Fermaid-O
3.75g Opti-White
3.75g Booster Blanc
2.5g FT Blanc Soft

Loving the photos!

 

[Deezil]

I would go with a 12.5% ABV for a Riesling, especially one that I believe you are planning to keep sweeter. I don't think I can recall a high alcohol Rielsing that I've had which isn't a late harvest, spatlese, or auslese. Agree with your idea of not manipulating the grapes too much as well.

Follow up question, what do the ingredients listed below that you added to each carboy do? Not familiar with any of them being new and all.

1.25g Fermaid-O
3.75g Opti-White
3.75g Booster Blanc
2.5g FT Blanc Soft

Loving the photos!

That's what i did, going for 12.5% and fermenting to dry.. I'll cross the backsweetening bridge this time next year.. Either with next years crop, or the Alexander's Concentrate that IB pointed out.. Most likely i'll use next years harvest to sweeten this...

Fermaid-O - an organic from of yeast nutrient
Opti-White & Booster Blanc - yeast derived additives that help with mouthfeel, stave off oxidation, brings out more aromatics & helps dodge things like chemical or vegetative off-odors/tastes
FT Blanc Soft - a tannin derived from oak and chestnuts (i think?) & helps with mouthfeel and such.. hopefully extends the ability to age as well

I am hoping to focus on Rieslings, especially keeping them sweeter without having to chapitalize. I'm very excited for your endeavor!!

Riesling stole my heart too, i imagine i'll put more effort into this grape than anything else through the course of my life

 

[rob]

Denzil,

I would think twice about back sweeting with juice, I tried that and it wanted to re ferment for me. You will be re interducing wild yeast.

 

[Deezil]

I dont think there's any way around Sorbate in this batch.. Unless i leave it dry, which is an option - i'm just waiting to see how it tastes

But yeah.. Only 12.5% PA & a 15% ABV-rated yeast... Definitely dont want some wid yeasts crashing the party

 

[The_Wine_Gnat]

From the information I've gleaned from the web about keeping residual sugar while stopping the chance of re-fermentation there are two possible options I am considering that you might think about:

1.) Drop the temperature 40F or below for 1-2 weeks, add K-Sorbate (125-200ppm) in conjunction with SO2 (50ppm) to stop the chance of re-fermentation. Having a very low pH also apparently helps (2.9-3.1). The downside of this from what I've heard is that using K-Sorbate might add a slight sulfur taste (can anyone confirm?)

2.) Find a friend who has a .5 micro filter to filter out 80-99% all yeast. It would have to be a pressurized filter though. Apparently it's also recommended to fine your wine to settle out some particles before hand as well. Invasive techniques, but probably necessary if you don't want to chapitalize or plan on making sweeter wine in the future. http://www.eckraus.com/wine-making-filter/

 

[Deezil]

Wineries hoping to dodge Sorbate but keep residual sugars, will cold-crash + sulfite + filter but its not bulletproof & not something im comfortable with doing at this point, with this batch...

Some people say Sorbate gives a bubblegum type taste but thats usually when its overdone or the person is susceptible/sensitive to sorbate smells/tastes

I filter my wines, even less than i fine my wines.. I prefer time.. Filtering at that fine of a level, will strip the wine of characteristics & my aim is to keep the finer details found in the grapes..

The *ideal* way for me to have approached this would have been to use a 9-11% ABV yeast & letting it quit on its own before all the sugars were gone.. But since i anticipated grapes with higher sugars, i bought yeasts to match & thats the only real reason i'll be stuck using sorbate

 

[The_Wine_Gnat]

Hmmm, what yeast would you use that stops fermentation at 9-11%? Sounds like a dessert/ice wine type of yeast.

 

[Deezil]

The opposite, actually... Ice Wine / Dessert yeasts are usually monstrous like EC-1118 because of the high levels of sugar/acids present in the must at pitch

Someone had mentioned Rudeshiemer to me on an earlier page in this thread, and that sounded like a nice candidate even though its 12% alcohol tolerant.. Wyeast also has a Cider yeast thats 11% alcohol tolerant but i havent looked at it much

Still need to do more research about 9-10% ABV yeasts myself