17 years of brewing new to wine

[wineview]

It's not how much but how little. The headspace concern is with wine in secondary or bulk aging in a carboy. In this case you want the wine as close to the bottom of the bung as possible without touching it or about an inch below to allow for temp fluxuations.

I was referring to headspace in the primary. Several people mentioned a lot of headspace is a good thing supposedly to avoid a fountain.

On another subject:
In brewing the temperature of the wort or beer needed to be at 60 degrees to get an accurate hydrometer reading. Same with wine or must?

 

[mainshipfred]

The hydrometer reading is correct since most are calibrated to 60*. There are adjustment calculators if it is not though. Sorry about the headspace thing though I misunderstood. With grapes you should give yourself 4-5" at least. Juice doesn't have to be that much, maybe 3-4 in a bucket so you can stir without making a mess.

 

[wineview]

The hydrometer reading is correct since most are calibrated to 60*. There are adjustment calculators if it is not though. Sorry about the headspace thing though I misunderstood. With grapes you should give yourself 4-5" at least. Juice doesn't have to be that much, maybe 3-4 in a bucket so you can stir without making a mess.

No apology needed. So yes the hydrometer is calibrated for 60*. In order to get the most accurate reading I should make sure the wine is at 60* or make the necessary adjustments, up or down, on the hydrometer chart.

I understand that a 7 gallon bucket is optimum for a six gallon primary. What about two five gallon carboys with airlocks for a six gallon batch? I would think that would be enough primary headspace. I know it seems like I keep harping on the carboy issue but I would like to see how the fermentation is coming along.

 

[BigH]

I've heard a lot about headspace on this thread. How much headspace is enough headspace?

During primary, expect about twice the height of foam you get with most Ales, or about the same as a Hefe. There are anti-foam agents you can buy, but I have never tried them.

H

 

[Scooter68]

Regarding Temperature adjustment for hydrometer I've attached a sample adjustment from a web site.

As you can see, you have to have a pretty extreme temperature change in order to have a variance that amounts to much - in this sample a hydrometer variance of 20 degrees will only change the reading by +0.002 Not that much.

And that difference holds true regardless of the SG reading. (1.100 becomes 1.102 and .990 becomes .992

I would hope that fermenting at 80 degrees f would not be a common thing.

 

[mainshipfred]

You're right Scooter .002 is no big deal but the temp of wine going through fermentation can easily get to 80. I currently have mine in a cooler set at 65 and the wine temp is around 75.

 

[wineview]

You're right Scooter .002 is no big deal but the temp of wine going through fermentation can easily get to 80. I currently have mine in a cooler set at 65 and the wine temp is around 75.

In brewing temperatures are critical to the final product. What would happen to the wine if it went over 80*? Just curious.

 

[mainshipfred]

In brewing temperatures are critical to the final product. What would happen to the wine if it went over 80*? Just curious.

I would ferment faster and you might lose some of the flavor factors of the yeast. But most yeasts are good up to 90*. I meant to mention before if you will be fermenting in carboys, which is fine, during the mid point of fermentation you will have trouble keeping water in the air lock. It will be so active but won't hurt anything if it goes dry.

 

[wineview]

I would ferment faster and you might lose some of the flavor factors of the yeast. But most yeasts are good up to 90*. I meant to mention before if you will be fermenting in carboys, which is fine, during the mid point of fermentation you will have trouble keeping water in the air lock. It will be so active but won't hurt anything if it goes dry.

I would not use an airlock but rather a blow off tube.

 

[wineview]

I use a 10 gallon Brute trash can or a 7 (I think it is) brew bucket. Space is a really good thing.

Not sure if a Brute trash can is food grade plastic. Are there no concerns with "food grade" materials?

 

[mainshipfred]

Not sure if a Brute trash can is food grade plastic. Are there no concerns with "food grade" materials?

I would have to say 90% of us use brutes.

 

[wineview]

I would have to say 90% of us use brutes.

Then I would assume no airlock is needed since the cover would not be air tight correct? What about keeping out bacteria?

 

[mainshipfred]

Then I would assume no airlock is needed since the cover would not be air tight correct? What about keeping out bacteria?

CO2 from the ferment and if you choose K meta will stop any bacteria growth. Just a towel on the brute to keep bugs out. It's up to you if you want to use the K meta, some do and some don't, I don't until after MLF. I find too much hinders the MLF bacteria growth.

 

[Johnd]

In brewing temperatures are critical to the final product. What would happen to the wine if it went over 80*? Just curious.

Particularly in red wine, ferm temps over 80 and into the high 80’s are sought after by some winemakers, myself included, to enhance the extraction of colors, tannins, etc., from the skins. Have even had some creep into the low 90’s for a bit, no problems at all. This doesn’t apply at all to white / light wines.

 

[Scooter68]

You're right Scooter .002 is no big deal but the temp of wine going through fermentation can easily get to 80. I currently have mine in a cooler set at 65 and the wine temp is around 75.

Wine temp during fermentation is one of those area where there are a lot of different opinions about what is best.

In general the schools of thought SEEM to be:
Ferment White Wines (Delicate fruits as well) at lower temps.
Ferment Reds at higher temps.

BUT as soon as you make a decision to follow this as your 'guiding rule' someone will come along with an exception.

So if it works well for you - so be it.

My original point is that with regard to SG readings - spending time to find the 'adjusted for temperature' reading is not that critical during the majority of fermentation. Perhaps at the very end when you are trying to determine if the ferment is truly completed... but then .002 +/- is not going to change the outcome significantly for the vast majority of home wine makers. Commercial folks work in different world. Once I found out how little difference the temp has on SG reading - I stopped even thinking about it.

Not exceeding the max temp for yeast is far more important.

Keep in mind that those max and min temps for yeasts are determined in lab conditions and unless your wine matches all those conditions exactly your results could vary significantly. So while your yeast may be listed as good up to 95 degrees farenheit, it could stop fermenting at a much lower temp because of other variables.

 

[Scooter68]

I would not use an airlock but rather a blow off tube.

Personally I would never use an airlock or blowoff tube during fermentation until the SG was at least below 1.020 and any foaming activity has stopped. I would also never ferment a wine in a carboy either, cleaning gross lees is an ugly task with carboy. For the low cost of a proper fermentation bucket, it's not worth the trouble.

if you are really concerned about bacteria, soak that towel in k-meta solution and wring it out well, then put it over the container. Repeat each day. BUT that isn't necessary at all. Maybe if you are doing a very slow ferment with low off-gassing.

 

[cmason1957]

Personally I would never use an airlock or blowoff tube during fermentation until the SG was at least below 1.020 and any foaming activity has stopped. I would also never ferment a wine in a carboy either, cleaning gross lees is an ugly task with carboy. For the low cost of a proper fermentation bucket, it's not worth the trouble.

if you are really concerned about bacteria, soak that towel in k-meta solution and wring it out well, then put it over the container. Repeat each day. BUT that isn't necessary at all. Maybe if you are doing a very slow ferment with low off-gassing.

I second this and might even go a bit lower. Yesterday I racked 12 gallons of Amarone that had gotten down to nearly 1.000. Went downstairs when I took the dogs out this morning to find filled airlocks, little droplets of mess all around the table, and a bit of wine that was expelled. Beer brewers worry more about open to the air than winemakers and they should, but with the exceedingly low PH of wine and higher alcohol, much less can grow in the environment. Good sanitation takes care of what little might.

 

[wineview]

I second this and might even go a bit lower. Yesterday I racked 12 gallons of Amarone that had gotten down to nearly 1.000. Went downstairs when I took the dogs out this morning to find filled airlocks, little droplets of mess all around the table, and a bit of wine that was expelled. Beer brewers worry more about open to the air than winemakers and they should, but with the exceedingly low PH of wine and higher alcohol, much less can grow in the environment. Good sanitation takes care of what little might.

Very helpful guys. I will probably continue with more questions. I have 7.5 buckets that I used for bottling beer. Would just need to get a cover.

 

[mainshipfred]

Very helpful guys. I will probably continue with more questions. I have 7.5 buckets that I used for bottling beer. Would just need to get a cover.

Myself and other mention using a towel but on buckets I just place the lid on loosely. Does the same thing. Glad you decided against carboys.

 

[Scooter68]

Just use a towel and a piece of cord to tie it on. Bucket lids don't seal and if you do snap it on you need to take if off to measure the SG and stir. A towel is so much easier. I actually bought 1 yard (x 72") of unbleached muslin at Hobby Lobby and cut that up into various size pieces to have as covers for buckets and some smaller pieces to tie on carboy tops when not in use. A plastic lid seal is worthless takes up more space etc. I can fold up my cloth pieces, dip them in sanitizer etc. AND if I do get a lot of foam activity, the cloth suppresses it (breaks the foam bubbles and keeps the foam from over flowing. When I see my cover stained with the wine foam I know what has happened. Rinse it in sanitizer and replace.