Yeast Nutrient vs Energizer

[MrsJones]

I'm thinking about trying Dave's Dragon Blood and the recipe includes both yeast nutrient and energizer - I'm wondering of someone can explain the difference for me.

I called my local wine shop and was told they only carry nutrient and They do the same thing anyway. Here's the product list they have:

http://www.thehomevintner.com/yeast-chemicals-and-additives

I asked in the dragon blood forum but didn't quite get an answer I understood so thought I would try here.

Thank you!

 

[RegarRenill]

Nutrient is usually just DAP. Energizer tends to have that and yeast hulls(dead yeast) and some other things the yeast love. It's kinda like nutrient is giving them 3 meals a day, but the energizer is a complete multivitamin. Is it necessary? Usually not as long as your must has all the required nutrients in it, but most non-grape wines lack nutrients (meads especially). Even grape wines can usually benefit from a good nutrient addition schedule.


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[Turock]

Yes, Regar gave a good summary of energizer.

Yeast energizer contains Vit.B, DAP, tricalcium phosphate, magnesium phosphate, and yeast hulls. The phosphates contribute to the energy needs of yeast cells. Now those things, along with the vitamin B, are nice to have available for the yeast but they are not necessary like nitrogen is. Nitrogen is what yeast really needs and that is essentially what you're providing to the yeast by using nutrient. Yeast energizer is recommended when you are fermenting vegetables and it's also very good to use to restart a stuck ferment, especially because of the yeast hulls.

You can use either regular DAP, or yeast energizer--OR Fermaid K because it also contains vitamins and many other factors to assist the yeast. Fermaid K contains organic and inorganic nitrogen which makes for smoother ferments because yeast like a certain amount of organic nitrogen over the all inorganic nitrogen that DAP provides. But don't get me wrong--all DAP nutrient works well in many types of ferments. You can use DAP--- OR the energizer---it's you're choice. Both will work fine for most ferments.

However, I don't quite understand why the recipe calls for both of these nutrients. Myself????--I don't think it's necessary--and could be a mistake to do that. You should not over-dose nutrient as it can help unwanted organisms to populate the must. I'd use one or the other, but not both. And when you use the energizer, it's best to pitch it 24 hrs AFTER you pitch the yeast. Step-feeding is the best way to use any nutrient.

 

[MrsJones]

Thanks so much for answering my question and the added tips and thoughts, much appreciated! Dragon Blood will be my first fruit wine

 

[homesteader26]

MrsJones I wondered the same thing and am starting a batch of both DB and skeeter pee today. Good luck with yours!

 

[deRicardo]

Energizer is just what it says - an energizer. It is typically used up front when the yeast is first pitched.

Nutrients are for providing additional nutrients (food) the yeast can run out of but need during fermentation. Nutrients can also be added up front but doing that is not always necessary.

 

[MrsJones]

MrsJones I wondered the same thing and am starting a batch of both DB and skeeter pee today. Good luck with yours!

Thanks homesteader, I'm glad I'm not the only one with the question! I started mine yesterday afternoon and pitched the yeast today! We should finish about the same time! Are you sticking with the original recipe?

 

[Julie]

A simple way to look at nutrients and energizes is

Nutrients are the vitamins and energizes are the red bull's.

 

[Turock]

What do you mean by adding it up front? The first dose goes in when the yeast becomes active. It can be a mistake to add nutrient before pitching yeast because any competitive organisms in the must can use it to gain a foothold.

Nutrients are NITROGEN--and needed by the yeast for smooth reproduction.

 

[homesteader26]

Mrsjones the only change I've made to the original DB was to add a quart of Concord grape juice. My DB has taken off and is already down to 1.060 from 1.080 - not shabby! My SP has not taken off yet but from what I have read that is fairly normal so I'm just stirring it up 3-4 x day and the must temp is a nice 75 degrees so I'm practicing this patience thing I'm told winemakers need. ;-)

Turock thanks for the tip of not adding nutrient until the yeast take off - makes great sense the way you explain things!

 

[MrsJones]

Mrsjones the only change I've made to the original DB was to add a quart of Concord grape juice. My DB has taken off and is already down to 1.060 from 1.080 - not shabby! My SP has not taken off yet but from what I have read that is fairly normal so I'm just stirring it up 3-4 x day and the must temp is a nice 75 degrees so I'm practicing this patience thing I'm told winemakers need. ;-)

Turock thanks for the tip of not adding nutrient until the yeast take off - makes great sense the way you explain things!

That's great! Sounds like things are moving along quickly. I'm sticking right to the original except with more fruit. My temps on the lower end of the scale 70F/21c my understanding is it will take longer but will have a smoother finish - mostly it's the temp of my house and I don't have a hear belt yet.

 

[Brew and Wine Supply]

Thats what we tell our customers, Like food and vitimins for yeast. We could all live on just sugar ( and Juice) but not long or healthy.
you can add before or when you add your yeast. If adding before make sure you have either campden tablets or K Meta in there to keep bacteria and stray yeast from taking off.