winemakers nightmare, H2S

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jamesngalveston

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used some montrachet yeast in a batch of original dragon blood.
The primary got to hot, combined with the montrachet, and it went to h2s.
I had no chemicals to treat it, and really had no clue what to do.
I have now read about , dap, bocksin, and using copper pipe to stir with, are rack with copper tubing.
What is it that most of you do when you encounter H2S..
 
Depends on how bad it is.. It's one of things things I try to catch as it happens, because if you let it go to far.. There's things you can try, but if they dont work - it is what it is..

If the wine is still loaded with CO2, thats good - you need to splash rack the wine to remove the H2S, but its going to remove the CO2; if the CO2 isnt there, it might oxidize the wine, so either k-meta it first or try another approach, but splash racking is one of the first things to try

H2S is caused by stressed yeast, mostly needing yeast nutrient although the temp could havee just sizzled them; I dont know the temp tolerance of Montrachet.. Yeast nutrient would have fixed it if the temp was within the tolerance of the yeast.. An ice bath would have been one of your only options to drop the temp, were it too high - sitting the whole fermenter inside another larger container with ice & cold water

Stirring with copper pipe is kind of a middle of the road approach; splash racking is easier, while adding copper sulfate (i believe? could be wrong) to the wine is pretty much last resort and adding too much can be harmful
 
James, your winemaking is accelerating so fast you will have your own LHBS by Christmas :) Dragon blood being a very light wine on fruit doesnt have much in the way of nutrients for the yeast as Deezil says, if the gravity is not to low you can add some balanced nutrient like fermaid to help the yeast after you splash it. If you put the racking cane up high on the neck of the recieveing carboy you can get it to spread out in a film and that helps expel some of the gasses. I dont think going to extremes is worth it for a DB, if you add to much copper sulfate you can poison yourself, and if you stir it with a copper pipe you have to know when to stop or you might get a metallic taste. Pasteur Red is a much better yeast to use in my opinion, much less prone to nasty farts. WVMJ
 
Copper sulfate is my first line of defense. I can get it in 1% or 10% solution. I do some trails then decide the minimal amount I need.
 
mountain jack...I actually only had two packs of yeast, one montrachet and one pasteur red...I wanted to keep my pasteru red for my fig...Untill i go to hbs...which is a long long ways away in hours.
good info from all..i will certainly heed all of it, and get some more chemicals. fermaid, copper sulfate, just to have...in case
 
For what it is worth, here is my approach..

Prevention - Use The appropriate amount of yeast neutriant in stages. I normally add in 3 stages to give the yeast a steady amount of neutriant during the fermentation life cycle. I add half up front, during the lag phase where growth is the main focus. I then add the remaining half in two stages later on.

Low Impact Treatment-
1) Splash Rack immediately. The most likely cause of your h2s is (as deezil has said) stressed yeast. Getting any residual lees out of the equation goes a long way to prevent the problem from getting worse.

With H2S, an amazingly small amount will knock you on your back. just 2ppm will seem shocking to you. Since we are talking about such a small amount, many times a splash racking will be enough to cure the issue.

2) Add k-meta to about 35 - 50ppm. This will go a long way in "killing/stunning" any remaining suspended active yeast, thus helps to prevent the problem from getting worse.

** after you try 1 and 2 above, give the wine about a week and check it again. If the issue has not been corrected, it is time for more hard line cures..

Hard line cures (addition of copper):

Copper will bond to H2S to form an insoluable compound that will settle out of the wine. The question here is one of delivery. There are a number of methods..

1) Bring wine into contact with copper metal (wire, pipes, or even copper sheeting. Some use copper pipes, but my recomendation is to get a piece of copper flashing. This will give you much more surface area than wire and also can be scoured with a scotch-brite pad (unlike pipes). Scouring the copper is needed as this will remove any tarnish or oxidation, thus improving the amount of contact that the wine has. Simply bend the flashing into a funnel shape and use as a funnel when you rack.

This method, although easy and mostly effective, is not the best choice. The amount of copper you use needs to be tightly controlled and this method has no way to regulate itself.

2) perform a bench trial using copper sulfate. This is far more effective that using copper metal. You do need to keep in mind most problems are caused by very minute amounts of H2S. Bench trials are a must since copper sulfate is not exactly a healthy additive.

It is simple, set up 2 samples of 100ml each of wine. One you leave alone as a control. Using a 3 ml syringe, add .25 ml at a time. For each addition, swirl the sample for 30 seconds and then sniff. Keep adding until you feel you have the problem licked. Take the total volume of copper sulfate used, and scale to the total volume you need to treat.

3) Reduless - This is a product that is actually dead yeast that has been infused with copper. I have used this product in the past and must say it works like a charm. You add an appropriate amount, stir, wait 2 days, then rack. This product has the advantage of delivering a measured amount of copper without the health concerns f copper sulfate.


Hope the above helps.
 
Why mess with copper sulfate if reduless works so well?

That's my point.

The only draw backs that I can see are these..

1) Reduless is not so easy to find and can be rather expensive. Copper sulfate is cheaper and easier to find.

2) reduless requires that you rack within 2 days of application. Copper Sulfate can just be added with no real immediate need for racking.
 
Reduless is the safest and overall best choice. You can order it from morewines.


Splash racking really helps, but one can't splash rack very many times without oxidizing the wine; however, I would think DB is not easily oxidized.


I like a solid copper pot-scrubbing pad from the grocery store kitchen department. It is a mesh of solid copper strands about the size of one's fist. Just sanitize a brand new one well and put in down in the wine with a string attached. A couple times each day grab the string and bounce the pad around some to stir a little. Leave it in for a week; it won't affect the taste in a negative manner.
 
Had this happen twice James (not with dragon blood). Both times I splashed racked quite a bit. With the first occurrence, after splash racking I stripped some electrical wire I had and stirred with it for a few minutes. Fortunately, they both pulled out of it and were saved.
The above advice came from the great folks on WMT.
 
I had a similar problem. I bought some cheap 3/8 copper tubing and racked with it, and splash racked over it. It worked like a charm. The smell was gone almost instantly.
 
This is funny, I havent had the stink for years, today I went down to check on our mulberry mead we just started a couple days ago. Smells like a fart festival down there! 4.5 tsp of Fermaid K added to 3 gallons should have been plenty for K1-V1116? The mulberry juice itself is at 1.072 by itself, added spring light honey to 1.10 so there shouldnt be a lot of stress on the yeast?WVMJ
 
This is funny, I havent had the stink for years, today I went down to check on our mulberry mead we just started a couple days ago. Smells like a fart festival down there! 4.5 tsp of Fermaid K added to 3 gallons should have been plenty for K1-V1116? The mulberry juice itself is at 1.072 by itself, added spring light honey to 1.10 so there shouldnt be a lot of stress on the yeast?WVMJ

Holy smokes no wonder your yeast is farting like a [can't think of the right thing]. I add 1.25 grams of nutrient per gallon. That would equal 3/4 of a tsp.
 
This is funny, I havent had the stink for years, today I went down to check on our mulberry mead we just started a couple days ago. Smells like a fart festival down there! 4.5 tsp of Fermaid K added to 3 gallons should have been plenty for K1-V1116? The mulberry juice itself is at 1.072 by itself, added spring light honey to 1.10 so there shouldnt be a lot of stress on the yeast?WVMJ

Holy smokes no wonder your yeast is farting like a [can't think of the right thing]. I add 1.25 grams of nutrient per gallon. That would equal 3/4 of a tsp.

If I did this right...

[FONT=&quot]Xg/L * % * 1000 = Y ppm YAN[/FONT]
.1 = Fermaid-K 10% Nitrogen content

4.5 tsp of Fermaid-K = 2.5g / gal
2.5g / gal = .66g / L
(.66g L * .1) * 1000 = 66ppm YAN

Honey musts lack a majority of the nutrients for fermentation & I'm not sure what mulberries bring to the table, but that's really not a lot for the yeast to work with.. Provided my math is right
 
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Wolfie, a rhino with SBDs :) Thanks for the math Deezil, I added about 2 tsp Fermocel P and stirred the snot out of it with a drill, fermentation kicked off good and its not as stinky right now, we will see how it is in the morning. WVMJ
 
I have used a copper tube in place of the racking cane and it seemed to work just fine
 
I bought some 5/16 copper tubing to use...Then made a copper mixing whip out of some romex...
The root of the problem being not enough nutrients...Fixed that also.
Now.
I like the yeast nutrient replacement better.
 
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