Wine was clear, now it's not?

[mamaderf]

Hello everyone. A while back I joined this forum because my dad passed and had a carboy of wine that was never finished, well I finally got around to it. I stabilized it and I am waiting for it to clear, I am a little impatient so the guy at the wine store told me to use some super clear (I think that is what it was called).

Anyhow, I have talked to a few people around here that make wine and I just keep getting "I don't know" type answers, now I am afraid I have ruined the wine. Even the guy at the wine supply place wasn't much help. sigh.

So here is a quick recap of what is going on with this wine. First, the mysterious wine (which we are now calling merlot after several testings) was passed on to me upon my dad's passing on mothersday. I put off doing anything with it until the last 2 weeks (aside from getting as many people as I could to test it for me to see if anyone could figure out what it was, we all decided very good merlot). This past weekend I noticed that it wasn't clear like it use to be, I called the wine shop, they said it was no big deal "clearness is just if I am worried about the wine being pretty", so I proceeded with stabilizing it. Now I have noticed 2 things about the wine, not only is it no longer clear, but it doesn't taste the same and it basically has very little smell. Off I went to another wine shop because I really didn't feel like the guy at the other wine place helped me at all, he told me to try the super clear, I explained all this to him and he was just like, "hm, I don't know", sigh again!.

So it has been 2 days since I put in the super clear and nothing has happened, from what I have read it should have done something by now.

So here are my concerns if there is anyone out there with any idea of what I should do now.

1) Did I ruin it somewhere along the line, I specifically asked the first wine shop guy if it was ok sitting for a few months and he said yes, I guess I am worried that killed it.

2) If all is ok with the wine, what are the causes for the sudden darkness? Is this something that happens?

And 3) I found what I believe to be my dad's recipe he was using, and was following that, and there was nothing in the instructions about degassing.... is this just part of stabilizing or did I totally miss a step? And is there any easy way to tell if it is stabilized aside from bottling and waiting for fireworks?

Thanks everyone.

Oh yea, I have all 8 of my dad's carboys now and I have decided to continue making wine in his honor (I really should look for a good "wine making for dummies" book) I am looking for some good recipes, I have read about honey wine that sounds good, and I am hoping to find a good wine I can make that would maybe be ready by Christmas? And did I really read about someone making chocolate merlot?

 

[Deezil]

Is the carboy its in, topped up? My fear is oxidation. You cite quite a few instances of sampling and i'm wondering if the level of the wine has dropped, exposing it to oxygen..

If you look with a flashlight or something like that, is there any sediment gathered around bottom? May be that the Super Kleer worked, but didnt fix the issue.. Just speculating...

Sorry to hear about your fathers passing, but its always nice having something to carry on from those we lose - glad to hear that you've got the courage to continue; im sure we can steer you along with your own batches, where you feel you need

 

[Turock]

When did your dad make this batch? It seems like it was last year's grapes. In a wine that young, you might have gotten it pretty shaken up when you moved it, especially if you didn't rack it off first before moving it. I've never made Merlot, but a red should be clearing up by now.

Did you know anything about how your dad made wine? If he didn't use pectic enzyme in the primary, that could lead to a lot of particulate matter. Maybe you should consider filtering it, rather than using clearing agents which are usually not used in reds. And don't forget, a big red like Merlot may need more aging than just one year. Most big reds take 2 and sometimes 3 years to release their best tastes. And be sure it's in a cool area.

 

[JohnT]

Al little more info would be helpful....

What exactly was your dad's recipe? can you list the steps you are using.

My question is this.. Was there any sediment in the bottom of the carboy before you used the clearing agent? Could the cloudiness be caused by you stirring up this sediment in any way?

Also, how about temperature? The the temperature (where the wine is kept) drop? If so, then the wine could have lost some if it's solubility and some cloudiness can form. This is commonly called "chill haze" and is not really anything to worry about. Just try to keep the temp consistant, and the chill haze might settle over time.

Also, give the clearing agent a little more time. 2 days does not seem like enough. I would give it a couple of weeks. Just keep the temp consistant and do not (under any circumstances) move or shake up your carboy.

I do not think that you have a problem with oxidation since you state that the flavor had simply faded. My guess is that you have not given the clearing agent time to settle and are getting some of that in your tasting glass.

One last question. As Deezil asks, when you taste your wine, what do you do afterwards? Do you top off the carboy with wine? do you leave it with a bigger air pocket inside the jug? You do really want to keep that carboy full.

 

[wyntheef]

i would check for gas, degas if needed, add 1/4 or even 1/2 tsp k-meta if not already added, top up with some fresh wine(box wine will do) to within a few inches of the airlock, push it to the back of the counter and forget about it for 3 months.
meanwhile, you should probably ease up on the frequent sampling and if you do sample, make sure you're conscious of proper
sanitation.

 

[mamaderf]

Is the carboy its in, topped up? My fear is oxidation. You cite quite a few instances of sampling and i'm wondering if the level of the wine has dropped, exposing it to oxygen..

If you look with a flashlight or something like that, is there any sediment gathered around bottom? May be that the Super Kleer worked, but didnt fix the issue.. Just speculating...

Sorry to hear about your fathers passing, but its always nice having something to carry on from those we lose - glad to hear that you've got the courage to continue; im sure we can steer you along with your own batches, where you feel you need

Yes it is still in the carboy, and as far as the head space, it was never what I would consider full to begin with so there is quite a bit of head space. No one ever mentioned adding anything to it to fill in the space (event the friends who said they knew how to make wine that came over to test it for me to try and figure out what it was). what would I add to it to fill it up?

I looked at it with a flashlight last night, I must have known you were going to ask that, and there was a bunch of white like stuff on the sides of the carboy, like where the groves are. I went to check one more time at the bottom after reading your post this morning, bumped the carboy and everything came off the sides and there is about a inch of sediment on the bottom.

I googled oxidation and After reading about it I am thinking this is a real possibility

 

[mamaderf]

When did your dad make this batch? It seems like it was last year's grapes. In a wine that young, you might have gotten it pretty shaken up when you moved it, especially if you didn't rack it off first before moving it. I've never made Merlot, but a red should be clearing up by now.

Did you know anything about how your dad made wine? If he didn't use pectic enzyme in the primary, that could lead to a lot of particulate matter. Maybe you should consider filtering it, rather than using clearing agents which are usually not used in reds. And don't forget, a big red like Merlot may need more aging than just one year. Most big reds take 2 and sometimes 3 years to release their best tastes. And be sure it's in a cool area.

This is what we have come to believe, we think it was made from a merlot concentrate, after that he pretty much made the wine in his own time on his own. He was always suppose to show me. And the recipe is on www.homewinery.com under the concentrate section ( http://www.homewinery.com/concentrate.pdf ), I found it hanging in his cabnet with 2 other recipes. I followed steps 8 to 14 last weekend and added the super clear on Tuesday. I know I should be more patient, I guess what I am worried about is how it was clear, then wasn't before I touched it, this worry that I'm going to screw it up is killing my patience.

 

[mamaderf]

Al little more info would be helpful....

What exactly was your dad's recipe? can you list the steps you are using.

My question is this.. Was there any sediment in the bottom of the carboy before you used the clearing agent? Could the cloudiness be caused by you stirring up this sediment in any way?

Also, how about temperature? The the temperature (where the wine is kept) drop? If so, then the wine could have lost some if it's solubility and some cloudiness can form. This is commonly called "chill haze" and is not really anything to worry about. Just try to keep the temp consistant, and the chill haze might settle over time.

Also, give the clearing agent a little more time. 2 days does not seem like enough. I would give it a couple of weeks. Just keep the temp consistant and do not (under any circumstances) move or shake up your carboy.

I do not think that you have a problem with oxidation since you state that the flavor had simply faded. My guess is that you have not given the clearing agent time to settle and are getting some of that in your tasting glass.

One last question. As Deezil asks, when you taste your wine, what do you do afterwards? Do you top off the carboy with wine? do you leave it with a bigger air pocket inside the jug? You do really want to keep that carboy full.

I was able to find my dad's recipe that was taped to the inside of his cabnet online, http://www.homewinery.com/concentrate.pdf

Yes there was sediment on the bottom before I siphoned the wine into a clean pail with the acid, then cleaned the carboy and siphoned it back to that with the potassium sorbate.

the temperature may have fluctuated a little, which is what got me moving on this. It was kept in his garage, which he always kept air conditioned in the summer and heated in the winter, when he passed my mom turned all that off. The garage never really got hot that I know of over the summer or really cold as the temperatures started going more fall like, it is a well built nicely insulated building (my dad was a building contractor), but I am sure there was some fluctuations. We did move the wine to my house, it was a desperate action because my mom wanted it out and wasn't willing to turn on the heat in the garage and I was worried about her throwing it out. The changes happened before we gently moved it to our house and then we let it sit here for a while after moving. The only place that I have had to put it is on my kitchen counter, my husband is working on getting me a cart I can put in our closet to keep wine on that way I can wheel wine out the kitchen to work on it, but put it back in there to keep it safe from the kids, would this be a problem? (our bedroom is right off the kitchen so it wouldn't be a far move and it would be smooth) I was going to do the wine making in the garage, but I am worried because it gets cool in our garage in the winter.

It really sounds like I need to top off the carboy. I will go get a box of wine to do this, I am assuming I should get merlot right?

 

[mamaderf]

i would check for gas, degas if needed, add 1/4 or even 1/2 tsp k-meta if not already added, top up with some fresh wine(box wine will do) to within a few inches of the airlock, push it to the back of the counter and forget about it for 3 months.
meanwhile, you should probably ease up on the frequent sampling and if you do sample, make sure you're conscious of proper
sanitation.

How would I check for gas?

I was always worried about sanitation (I'm a germaphobe so sanitation is my calling, lol). The sampling was just because no one knew what it was, so we were trying to figure it out, we didn't take much out, just a few times that someone was over who said they knew how to make wine (whom I have figured out I don't think they knew what they were talking about), but as I stated in a earlier reply, it was never what I would consider full at all (from seeing pictures of other carboys of wine). It is way down past the bend at the top of the side of the carboy. I think I am going to head out later today to get a box of wine to fill it up some.

 

[mamaderf]

I almost forgot, I know that a few people have asked if the carboy was shaken, the guy at home winery told me to shake it if it has been opened after I put the air lock back on to get rid of the air.

 

[JohnT]

OK,


Top off the carboy with store bought merlot. Get it filled asap to avoid any further oxydation!