Wine kit brands

[TheGoodLife]

Just wondering what are your favorite brands of wine kits. I'm still new to this and probably haven't had any wine kits age long enough to make a fair comparison but so far I prefer RJ Spagnols Grand Cru kits over Winexpert Selection Series and Vintners Reserve kits...What are your thoughts?

Mark

 

[ldmack3]

Hi MArk.
I've made MM, RJ and CC. Seems to me that a kit that is whole juice needs more time ageing. With a kit that you add water to I short mine on the water making it better right off the bat.

I've had good luck with (some better, some worse) but I've kind of settled on whole juice for long term storage and concentrate kits to have it available to drink sooner. I've never tried WE or VR kits

I just bought 2 barrels and will start ageing longer on all my wines so I'll have to see how it goes.

 

[TheGoodLife]

Thanks for the advice! Are you saying there are kits that are not concentrated? I guess I've only noticed concentrated kits.

If so, could you recommend a good Malbec "whole juice" kit.

 

[cpfan]

There is only one brand of "whole juice" kits. That's the Mosti Mondiale All Juice brand. I haven't made any of these, but based on comments here at WMT it's good but not the best.

There are some brands that are 23 litres of juice/concentrate mix, and they vary in quality from 'standard' to quite good.

Otherwise, the kits are concentrate only, concentrate/juice, or juice/concentrate. Generally the smaller the box the more concentrate.

To answer your original question, I really like the Ken Ridge Showcase and Cru Select brands. The En Primeur, Cellar Classic Winery Series, and Cellar Craft Showcase also get consistently good feedback, but I don't have much personal experience with them.

There are specific other kits that I think are very good (eg Ken Ridge Classic Merlot), but you were asking about brands.

The limited edition kits that are produced are also usually very good.

Steve

 

[ldmack3]

That's right, MM is the only whole juice I know of. But they do have 3 levels. Original, Masters and Megiloli. The Megiloli Ltd. Editionhave just been announced and I have 2 on order from Fine Vine Wines. I did 3 last year and the are really developing well. Seems they take a while to develop.
I love Malbec but with so many choices I've never made one. I did 2 2012 Tango kits from RJS.. Temp & Malbec. They were WONDERFUL. So wonderful I still look for them hoping to score one more.
Let me know what you try with Malbec and how it goes. I'm tempted to try and semi-duplicate the Tango.
The Cellar Classic Rosso Grande is another great kit. i've made 3 or 4 and everone loves them.

 

[cpfan]

ldmack3...

On their website the Meglioli is said to be "the only limited edition winemaking product that is 23L of 100% pure grape must". "Must" implies juice/concentrate rather than all juice. Since MM is not shy of saying "all juice", I always assumed that it wasn't "all juice". Do you have a box so that you can check the ingredient list?

http://www.mostimondiale.com/index.php/en/products/grape-must/meglioli

PS...I second your comments on the Rosso Grande. Have you tried the Cellar Classic Winery Series Rosso Grande Excellente?

Steve

 

[TheGoodLife]

My very first wine kit I made was a Grand Cru Malbec. We didn't give it any time to age since it was my first kit but it was good right away. Now, 5 months later, it's really good, and our favorite one so far.

I started a "Grand Cru International" Malbec kit last Saturday. I'm anxious to see what the grape skins add to the final product.

I jotted down the Cellar Classic Rosso Grande to try next. I have a couple empty carboys... that shouldn't happen

 

[ldmack3]

No boxes at the moment but will check when I get the LE in January. I think they are emphasizing the "only Limited Edition" part of that statement. Which is true to my knowledge and they have the only non-concentrate kits as far as I know. I've even read that the Original All Jusice is actually concentrate with water add back in. This was by a retailer that did not like MM for some reason. sounded like sour grapes to me. yuk yuk yuk
Also I find any number of definitions of "must". Some say it has enough grape matter that it has to be pressed, some say the minute you pitch the yeast it becomes must and others say it becomes "must" after it reaches a certain % of alcohol. Not really sure it matters when you call it must unless you are a commercial winery and then maybe there is some regulatory reason to call it must at a certain point. What's your definition? I'm really unsure...and quite confused!
I've never done the Rosso Grande with the grape pack but taking it that I should! I've got one more without so will finish that one then try the Excellente.

 

[ldmack3]

Goodlife
Kudos to you on being able to save some of your first batch for 5+ months!
It took me years before I had enough bottled to actually save some back. I had to relocate and did not make any for a while so got behind.
But now I'l on a roll. 400+ bottled this year, 200+ under refrigeration, 75 in a rack. 60 finished and ageing, another 180 in kits waiting to start. (I give away a lot. )

 

[cpfan]

ldmack3:

To me, "must" is unfermented wine. Once it has alcohol in it, to me it's wine.

BTW, I'm not a fan of Mosti Mondiale for a couple of reasons buried in the mists of antiquity (say about 2003-2005). But I'm pretty sure that the All Juice kits are all juice. There are better kits out there, but if you want an all juice kit, you gotta go to them.

Steve

 

[DirtyDawg10]

Unless they are sister companies there are other brands of 100% juice 23L kits (sterile must). The first kit I made which is in my signature below is one of these. The Advintage FC Collection which is made in Canada. They say their product is 100% juice single strength which I believe means not from concentrate. From what I understand these kits are not easy to find around here though. I believe they were a special order by my LHBS.

 

[DocBee86]

I have done about 10 of the MM Original All Juice kits and have been very happy with the results. Everyone that has tasted them has loved the results. I like not having to add any water to them. I have noticed compared to about 5 years ago the kits now have more oak included with them. I have done one Masters kit, but that is still clearing so no answer how that one is as yet. One other nice thing with these is that I get a nice strong plastic bucket that can be very helpful for those times I'm short of carboys at racking times.

 

[cpfan]

Unless they are sister companies there are other brands of 100% juice 23L kits (sterile must). The first kit I made which is in my signature below is one of these. The Advintage FC Collection which is made in Canada. They say their product is 100% juice single strength which I believe means not from concentrate. From what I understand these kits are not easy to find around here though. I believe they were a special order by my LHBS.

DirtyDawg:

The advintage web page (which doesn't appear to have been updated recently) says "Although our FC Collection is produced in Canada, it contains grape juices and grape juice concentrates that come from the EU". (my bold highlight)

In other words, not all juice. SInce I've never made one of these kits, I have no idea what is in the ingredient list. Do you still have the pail?

Steve

 

[ldmack3]

I've drilled 2 of the all juice buckets for a spigot and a small hole in the top (not in the very center) for a theromemeeter and use these for primary fermentation when using a concentrate kits. With a full 6 gallons they are VERY full but I short my concentrate kits a little on water anyway.

 

[DirtyDawg10]

DirtyDawg:

The advintage web page (which doesn't appear to have been updated recently) says "Although our FC Collection is produced in Canada, it contains grape juices and grape juice concentrates that come from the EU". (my bold highlight)

In other words, not all juice. SInce I've never made one of these kits, I have no idea what is in the ingredient list. Do you still have the pail?

Steve

I hadn't noticed that before, thanks for pointing it out. Their website is not the greatest. I do have the pail which I will check when I get home. I also contacted Advintage and will hopefully get a response from them on this question. I'll let you know.

 

[DirtyDawg10]

The bucket says "Varietal and/or generic grape juice, varietal and/or generic grape juice concentrate" ...I guess that kinda leaves the door wide open as to what is in the bucket. I'm interested to see if and what I hear from the e-mail I sent to the manufacturer.

 

[DirtyDawg10]

Here's what I received from the manufacturer...

Hi, thanks for buying our products and taking the time to write to us.

Our 23L sterile musts are 100% must (97% must and 3% concentrate to
balance the recipe in color)

The must is imported directly from us, from the country of origin
Europe, then processed in our plant in Montreal (blending, filtering,
pasteurizing and filling)

Enjoy the wine!

 

[Wade E]

Thanks for looking into that fof us dawg. There are brands such as Rjs which sell a bucket that you eould think is all juice but in reality its just a concentrated kit with water added so you dont have to which in turn makes you psy dhipping for water! I myself can say the 2 upper levels of the Mosti ( Meglioli and Masters) are excellent but are vety pricey. As far as kits go I think for the money the best product pound for pound is the RJS Winery Series.

 

[cpfan]

Thanks for looking into that fof us dawg. There are brands such as Rjs which sell a bucket that you eould think is all juice but in reality its just a concentrated kit with water added

Just to qualify Wade's statement a bit. I believe that he is talking about the Bolero brand that most people thought was equivalent to the Grand Cru brand. (BTW the Bolero Pinot Grigio was quite nice.) Bolero is no longer listed on the RJS web-site. But they have had another 23 litre pail brand called Prmier Cru for a perhaps 4-5 years. Although I have never made one of these kits, my understanding from forum readings is that it is a better quality kit, perhaps similar to the original Cellar Classic or Cru Select kits, ie mostly juice with some concentrate.

Steve

 

[ldmack3]

Steve:

Are your reasons related to marketing practices?
I started making in 2007.