White Wines - Crisp taste

[ffemt128]

I've made several white wines but I have yet been able to achieve the "crisp" taste of the commercial wines. We've made Sauv Blanc, Pinot Grigio, Reislings etc. What can be done to improve the taste and get that "crispness"?

 

[ibglowin]

As an experiment you might start by checking the pH and TA of a wine you really like, then compare to one you have made that isn't "cutting it". If you find the commercial bottle has a much higher TA or lower pH then your on the road to making the wine more to your taste buds. You can always experiment with a bottle or even a couple of splits. Start by bringing the pH in line with the commercial bottle, then check the TA see if you like it. Then do the opposite, bring the TA in line, see if that does the trick. You may find it is one or the other or a meet in the middle type of thing. Use some Tartaric Acid (obviously)!

 

[Turock]

Another little trick you can try---if you have some citric acid, pour a glass of the wine and add just a few crystals--like 2 or 3 of the acid. Stir it up and see if that's more to your liking.

 

[ffemt128]

I think you are both onto something and are confirming what I thought. I know I adjusted my gewurtztraminer last year several months before bottling. The TA when I checked it was only around .45% and all I was reading were stating it should be .75-.90.


Prior to last year, I didn't really check the ph or TA prior to fermentation or really much after. Going to start that more often as a before and after check.

 

[Inferno]

First i would source white grapes from areas that are cooler , the central valley and lodi are never going to produce crisp whites.

and if the acid comes in a little low , Using tartaric acid in the must to get your TA between 6.6 and 7.2 and ph between 3.5 and 3.3 has worked well for me .

 

[ffemt128]

First i would source white grapes from areas that are cooler , the central valley and lodi are never going to produce crisp whites.

and if the acid comes in a little low , Using tartaric acid in the must to get your TA between 6.6 and 7.2 and ph between 3.5 and 3.3 has worked well for me .

I've been getting juice buckets, not grapes both from CA and also Chille. Will definately be monitoring up front this year. I have the equipment, no excuses.

 

[robie]

I've been getting juice buckets, not grapes both from CA and also Chille. Will definately be monitoring up front this year. I have the equipment, no excuses.

No guaranty that those juice buckets are from a cooler (higher acid) or warmer (lower acid) part of Chili or California, so you will need to check the TA.

Always add only half of the acid you think it will take. Stir it in well, give it a few days to fully incorporate into the wine and try it again; repeat if necessary.

The reason for half is if you put in too much, it is much harder to lower the TA.

Remember, the ultimate test is how it tastes to you, so in the end, go more by taste than the actual TA reading.

 

[ffemt128]

No guaranty that those juice buckets are from a cooler (higher acid) or warmer (lower acid) part of Chili or California, so you will need to check the TA.

Always add only half of the acid you think it will take. Stir it in well, give it a few days to fully incorporate into the wine and try it again; repeat if necessary.

The reason for half is if you put in too much, it is much harder to lower the TA.

Remember, the ultimate test is how it tastes to you, so in the end, go more by taste than the actual TA reading.

Agreed 100%. I'll be checking both PH and TA prior to fermentation and adjusting pre opposed to post this time around. I noticed the recommendation for tartaric acid, I have this and have used straight tartaric in the past and will make my adjustments with that this time around, is this recommended opposed to the blend?

 

[JohnT]

I would also recomend a nice tight filter of the wine.

 

[ffemt128]

I would also recomend a nice tight filter of the wine.

John,

I generally do filter any whites or blush wines with a 1 micron filter.

 

[ibglowin]

Absolutely. Tartaric Acid only.

I noticed the recommendation for tartaric acid, I have this and have used straight tartaric in the past and will make my adjustments with that this time around, is this recommended opposed to the blend?

 

[joeswine]

Grapefruit????????????

IF YOU WANT TO GIVE YOUR WINE THE BITE IT NEEDS WITH OUT THE CHEMICALS,ADD SOME GRAPEFRUIT ZEST TO YOUR SECONDARY,THAT WILL IMPROVE THE ACIDITY WITHOUT USING CHEMICALS,TRY IT IT WORKS.

 

[Inferno]

Tartaric acid is extracted from grape pomace .
It's naturally present in grapes .

There is no way grape fruit zest could compensate for 2 g/Litre or higher additions or phs over 3.8 in volumes over one Litre.

Have you done before and after TA and ph measurements with zest?

 

[robie]

Tartaric acid is extracted from grape pomace .
It's naturally present in grapes .

There is no way grape fruit zest could compensate for 2 g/Litre or higher additions or phs over 3.8 in volumes over one Litre.

Have you done before and after TA and ph measurements with zest?

Have you, since you already seem to have the answer?
Have you ever even tried zesting on a white wine?

I don't think the intent would be to utilize zesting to lower the pH by that much. Zesting adds a flavor factor more than change the pH.

 

[ffemt128]

IF YOU WANT TO GIVE YOUR WINE THE BITE IT NEEDS WITH OUT THE CHEMICALS,ADD SOME GRAPEFRUIT ZEST TO YOUR SECONDARY,THAT WILL IMPROVE THE ACIDITY WITHOUT USING CHEMICALS,TRY IT IT WORKS.

I read your previous topic on zesting. Seemed interesting.

 

[Inferno]

Have you, since you already seem to have the answer?
Have you ever even tried zesting on a white wine?

I don't think the intent would be to utilize zesting to lower the pH by that much. Zesting adds a flavor factor more than change the pH.

The op was asking how to make wines crisp and in a commercial style
Like these classical varietals are made .

The other poster (joeswine) , in all caps no less , denigrated the use of tartaric acid as the use of chemicals , strongly , IN ALL CAPS !!!
Zesting will not " IMPROVE ACIDITY" by any measurable means . It may change the taste but not increase acidity as stated. That's why I asked if the tests were done before and after
Tartaric acid is derived from and naturally present in grapes . It's use is regarded as the gold standard in grape winemaking , and certainly is in line with the commercial style the first poster asked about how to make

To insinuate that tartaric acids use is somehow unnatural and wrong is unbelievably biased .
There isn't a peer reviewed grape winemaking text ever written that advocates the use of a citrus fruit as an addition to grape wines. Even jack Keller doesn't advocate this. And no commercial winemaker would either.

But if rustic additions of non grape derived materials like citrus skins sounds like a good idea , all the more power to you. This is a free society.

It won't give you classic character , it increases the risk of spoilage and browning but its your wine do what you like . Just drink it fast .

I'm fairly new to forums but have been making wine for over 30 years .
I've never encountered such hostility before in a forum
I can see I'm not wanted here.
I bid you all adieu.

Farewell
George Foster

 

[olusteebus]

Well dang. Inferno did not last long here on this forum.

That may be a good thing.

jeeeesh!

 

[ibglowin]

Pretty sure I was the 2nd poster and not only did I not use any caps I was the first to suggest using Tartaric acid.....

Adieu Inferno.

 

[manvsvine]

Seems like a communications missfire.
Too bad , inferno sure seems to have strong technical chops .

 

[ibglowin]

I see he came back and edited his last post to correct his mistake. What he failed to figure out in his short stay was that Joe uses caps all the time. It doesn't mean he is yelling. It doesn't mean anything. That's just Joe who actually has as much knowledge and experience in winemaking as anyone else on this board plus Joe is not afraid to step outside the box and experiment (like zesting) and then pass along those experiments and how they turned out.

He meant no harm or ill will to anyone of that I am sure.