Other What is Really In Those Kits?

[NoSnob]

Surprisingly, I have not seen this discussed. I have made nearly a dozen batches, mostly WinExpert, a CellarCraft, and a Spagnols. I am pleased overall with the results and have no axe to grind about this topic.

I believe the box on all of them lists ingredients as: varietal grape juice and grape juice concentrates. Their advertising says they source juice from around the world and their various kits name the juice by varietal, and for the premium juice by geographic source, sometimes by AVA (wine region).

Federal laws greatly restrict what can be placed on the wine label. Thus, when we buy a bottle of wine labeled as Lodi Ranch Cabernet Sauvignon 2009 we know that 75% of that wine is comprised of the Cabernet Sauvignon varietal, at least 85% of the wine came from the Lodi Ranch AVA, and at least 85% of that wine was sourced from grapes grown in 2009. If I am wrong on the percentages, please correct me.

Since we buy juice (and not wine) from kit wine companies, I assume none of the aforementioned restrictions pertain. Which leaves us to wonder: Can the kit manufacturers call their juice essentially any varietal they want to and list the source of their juice as anywhere they wish? Are there any checks or balances to their actions?

I'm sure much of what they place in the wine kits is "proprietary" meaning it's a company secret. Wouldn't it be interesting to know what % of their Pinot Noir juice really is from that grape and what % of their juice is actually sourced from those listed international or American locations or wine regions.

Am I the only one to wonder about this?

NS

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

Oh no you are not the first. LOL
Malvina

 

[TomK-B]

I've wondered the same thing.

 

[Bartman]

I agree that there is no way for we as consumers to truly know whether the kits' contents are sourced as labeled or something else. But, I can say from experience and talking with retailers that the kit makers strive for reliability and consistency in their kits, so that consumers can be confident that their end results will taste as expected from year to year. So, with some lower end kits the juice/source may be less critical since so much water is added and/or other flavors that the underlying wine is more generic, but with the higher end kits, the distinctive taste of certain terroirs are hard to reproduce. I am thinking specifically of the Red Mt. Cab, which has a certain chalkiness that is highly prized and would be difficult to replicate, so I would be surprised if the juice was not primarily or overwhelming from Red Mt. vineyard(s).

 

[NoSnob]

Yes, my LHBS tells me the almost same thing. If a company says a premium juice kit it came from a specified geographic location then it probably does! It is interesting that the company never really goes on record to clarify the facts. We do get some really great marketing though.

My cynicism is not without some basis. I seem to recall that one of the major kit companies had a lawsuit arguing that their Chateauneuf-du-Pape kit juice was not in fact sourced as grapes/juice for that style is customarily sourced. The final judgement required the company to revise its advertising of that kit by giving it another name. Which is why they now advertise that kit with another name but give in parenthesis the Chateauneuf-du-Pape name. In other words the company was forced to admit that the juice was to make wine in that style, but was not really sourced as the component juices of that style are typically sourced.

If that is true for that style we wonder if their source names for other juice kits are really, in fact, merely to make wines of that style, not to imply that that juice actually came from a specified AVA/area or from specific areas from which grapes of that style traditionally originate.

So I guess my question remains: If a company says their juice is a Mosel Valley Gewurztraminer what does that really mean about the source of that juice? If only a liter of that 6L juice kit comes from the Mosel Valley is that being misleading?

NS

 

[SouthernChemist]

I can't speak as to why kit companies do not specifically label their products with exact composition and origins (perhaps trade secrets?), but here are a few other thoughts.

I think that lawsuit in question had more to do with the French being very protective of their origin names and AOC designations. The kits did not contain ingredients strictly from that region of France and weren't produced there, and so on that point the name Chateauneuf-du-Pape would be misleading.

I'm sure several kits are made 'in the style of' because of the certain limitations, but it does not necessarily mean they're somehow inferior. For instance, the kit companies just don't have access to raw materials from certain regions of the world. The producers are either unwiling to sell their grapes for that purpose or they simply do not produce enough to begin with.

I would like to think that if a kit is labeled as being specifically sourced from a particular area, the majority of its juice (if not all of it) comes from that area. I believe I have read before that kit companies (at least Winexpert, but why would the other majors ones be different?) do keep everything separate for the higher end kits that are region specific such as the Winexpert Estate kits. I don't think in the end it would do them any good to just throw a small amount of juice from the Mosel Valley and then make the rest up with random Gewurtztraminer juice from elsewhere. I have a feeling people would notice in some way.

As for the smaller, cheaper kits, they probably are sourced from all over the place. You're more likely to get juice from a Californian Viognier rather than something that approaches the style of a southern Rhone Viognier (which would be pretty difficult to get anyway). But then again, I don't think you would expect as much anyway from the smaller kits.

You can have a lot more confidence for the higher end kits, I think. Some of them come with labels that specify a particular vineyard, for example.

 

[ibglowin]

The Cellar Craft Showcase kits will quite often (not always) have not only the AVA in the name (Yakima Valley, Red Mountain) but also a vineyard (Snipes Valley Vineyard, Cherry Hill Vineyard, Rattlesnake Valley Vineyard). I have not seen that much source information on any other Kit.

 

[rjb222]

Yes, my LHBS tells me the almost same thing. If a company says a premium juice kit it came from a specified geographic location then it probably does! It is interesting that the company never really goes on record to clarify the facts. We do get some really great marketing though.

My cynicism is not without some basis. I seem to recall that one of the major kit companies had a lawsuit arguing that their Chateauneuf-du-Pape kit juice was not in fact sourced as grapes/juice for that style is customarily sourced. The final judgement required the company to revise its advertising of that kit by giving it another name. Which is why they now advertise that kit with another name but give in parenthesis the Chateauneuf-du-Pape name. In other words the company was forced to admit that the juice was to make wine in that style, but was not really sourced as the component juices of that style are typically sourced.

If that is true for that style we wonder if their source names for other juice kits are really, in fact, merely to make wines of that style, not to imply that that juice actually came from a specified AVA/area or from specific areas from which grapes of that style traditionally originate.

So I guess my question remains: If a company says their juice is a Mosel Valley Gewurztraminer what does that really mean about the source of that juice? If only a liter of that 6L juice kit comes from the Mosel Valley is that being misleading?

NS

One needs to read between the lines in what was done. First up here any way wineries have for yeas said kit wine makers have been making low quality kits and putting that wine into their bottles and selling that as their wine. So the law suit concerning the Chateauneuf-du-Pape was based on a French company saying that Kit companies were infringing on patent and not sourcing grapes from the patent region. Not that the wrong varietals were being used.From that law suit kit companies had to change the names of their kits so as not to infringe on patent names. Kit companies go to great lengths to source grapes from around the world. They also use high end concentrates from those regions. Kit companies are now mainly owner by multi - conglomerate wineries. RJ Spagnols is a subsidiary of Vincor international which is a subsidiary of Constellation wineries the largest winery conglomerate in the world. Wine Expert,Vineco, and Cellar Craft are owned by Andre Peltier wineries. Wineries bought these companies because they were catching on and making wines that will compete in most cases not all with their commercial products. They now encourage better quality kits and use some of their blends in some of the kits available.

 

[NoSnob]

Thanks for making it clear about the French litigation with Winexpert over their use of the Chateauneuf-du-Pape apellation.

In further researching this issue I found a March 2012 thread on another wineboard that deals with kit juice composition issue. Tim V. was asked whether kit wine manufacturers are bound by the labeling attribution (varietal, geographic area, vintage year) requirements imposed upon winemakers.

Tim said no that his company is not a winery but a "non-standard" food re-packager." Below is cut & pasted his exact quoted statement:

"But it's a lot simpler to follow those rules than to try to create something out of a whole cloth--our Stag's Leap Merlot comes from Stag's Leap in Napa, our German Mosel Riesling comes from just outside the village of Zell on the Mosel, etc. That way you never have to explain yourself."

Tim says it would be a lot simpler to follow the same rules. He notes Winexpert's premium kits do use [some] juice from the specifically designated area. Without actually saying so, he seems to imply that the other attribution requirements are also met .

NS