vehicle buying stuff

[winemaker81]

The following chain of emails was in Post a Meme regarding vehicles purchasing and pricing, and per usual, it's easy for many of us to dive into that rabbit hole. So ... this thread now exists. At this time it's not stickied, although if it proves popular that's a future possibility.

Per usual, keep the discussion civil.

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Most people who sign a mobile phone contract for a new phone pay that much, albeit on a monthly payment!

It's like a tax on people who cannot do math.

Many moons ago, an acquaintance was down to 24 payments of $250 USD on her car. She decided to trade it in to save money.

The new car was 60 payments of $225 each, so she was saving $25 each month. The salesman explained this to her and she was very excited.

I tried to explain to her that she owed $6,000 on the current car and would owe $13,500 on the new one, so she was farther in debt. Her response? I was stupid if I didn't understand that $225 is less than $250. Ok ...

Apparently my version of logic is not in vogue in all quarters.

 

[Christopher Anderson]

It's like a tax on people who cannot do math.

Many moons ago, an acquaintance was down to 24 payments of $250 USD on her car. She decided to trade it in to save money.

The new car was 60 payments of $225 each, so she was saving $25 each month. The salesman explained this to her and she was very excited.

I tried to explain to her that she owed $6,000 on the current car and would owe $13,500 on the new one, so she was farther in debt. Her response? I was stupid if I didn't understand that $225 is less than $250. Ok ...

Apparently my version of logic is not in vogue in all quarters.

#1 SHE.
#2 Probably younger than us.
#3 new math!
#4 I only bought a new car when I was young and stupid. I have bought 1+ year old vehicles at very good prices.

 

[winemaker81]

#1 SHE.
#2 Probably younger than us.
#3 new math!
#4 I only bought a new car when I was young and stupid. I have bought 1+ year old vehicles at very good prices.

One of my roommates made a similar decision -- he got a time-in-rank raise and immediately traded in his car for one whose payment was higher than his previous one, exactly the same amount as his net monthly raise. Both were early 20's at the time, although I've met people with similar rationales of all ages.

 

[Jovimaple]

One of my roommates made a similar decision -- he got a time-in-rank raise and immediately traded in his car for one whose payment was higher than his previous one, exactly the same amount as his net monthly raise. Both were early 20's at the time, although I've met people with similar rationales of all ages.

I saved all my mechanic bills in a folder and made a convert out of hubby that used cars, especially once paid off, are the way to go - I compared what I had paid each year for repairs to a typical car payment.

I don't know if schools are finally teaching basic finance these days, but they should if they're not!

 

[Rocky]

I saved all my mechanic bills in a folder and made a convert out of hubby that used cars, especially once paid off, are the way to go - I compared what I had paid each year for repairs to a typical car payment.

I don't know if schools are finally teaching basic finance these days, but they should if they're not!

Agree! We have two cars, my Bride's 2000 Acura TL and my 2003 Acura RL. The TL was bought new and paid for at the time of purchase. It now has just over 90,000 miles and except for a slight tear in the leather on the driver's seat, is in showroom condition. The RL was purchased used, coming off a lease by a couple who used it mostly to travel between Ohio to Florida, had 21,000 miles and was showroom condition. It had been maintained by the dealer and we paid in full when purchased. It now has just over 140,000 miles and is excellent condition. I take them in a couple times a year for routine maintenance, oil and lube, fluid levels, tires rotation, etc. so I might spend $200-400 each per year. They are great cars, fully fit for use. I have been in some of my friends' new cars and I doubt I could operate one now with all the "innovations" that have no value whatsoever to me.

 

[winemaker81]

I saved all my mechanic bills in a folder and made a convert out of hubby that used cars, especially once paid off, are the way to go - I compared what I had paid each year for repairs to a typical car payment.

That's a very good point, and it's why I keep my '98 Tacoma on the road. I typically spend $300 - $500 each year on repairs other than maintenance. I briefly considered getting at new Tacoma at $38,000 USD ... but nope, the old one mostly does what I need. I'd not take it on a long trip, but for local use it's fine.

OTOH, if it was my daily vehicle, I'd replace it as I need a vehicle that is 100% reliable, and my confidence is not there. A co-worker brags about how little he spends when buying a car, but his is in the shop on a monthly basis, often for minor things. Would a newer vehicle cost him more each month? Possibly, but he'd not have to Uber to and from work for 3 days each month ...

It's a trade-off.

 

[Jovimaple]

That's a very good point, and it's why I keep my '98 Tacoma on the road. I typically spend $300 - $500 each year on repairs other than maintenance. I briefly considered getting at new Tacoma at $38,000 USD ... but nope, the old one mostly does what I need. I'd not take it on a long trip, but for local use it's fine.

OTOH, if it was my daily vehicle, I'd replace it as I need a vehicle that is 100% reliable, and my confidence is not there. A co-worker brags about how little he spends when buying a car, but his is in the shop on a monthly basis, often for minor things. Would a newer vehicle cost him more each month? Possibly, but he'd not have to Uber to and from work for 3 days each month ...

It's a trade-off.

That's my cue that it's time to look for something newer - when it becomes unreliable. I actually did end up buying my first "new" car in 2015. It was the dealer's daily rental so while new, it had 2500 miles on it, which allowed us to bargain the price down significantly. And yes, I still drive that today! I have been working from home since the pandemic, so I don't put as many miles on it as I used to, but we typically take my car on roadtrips. I think it has around 120k miles on it now.

 

[Christopher Anderson]

That's a very good point, and it's why I keep my '98 Tacoma on the road. I typically spend $300 - $500 each year on repairs other than maintenance. I briefly considered getting at new Tacoma at $38,000 USD ... but nope, the old one mostly does what I need. I'd not take it on a long trip, but for local use it's fine.

OTOH, if it was my daily vehicle, I'd replace it as I need a vehicle that is 100% reliable, and my confidence is not there. A co-worker brags about how little he spends when buying a car, but his is in the shop on a monthly basis, often for minor things. Would a newer vehicle cost him more each month? Possibly, but he'd not have to Uber to and from work for 3 days each month ...

It's a trade-off.

Toyota has been my most reliable brand. I had a Camry (1991) that was still working at 385,000 miles. A friend needed a vehicle after her's was involved in a crash and she had liability only. i sold her the vehicle for $100.00. It is still on the road today. Wife had a Matrix (2006) that had 200K++ until I bought her a "new" Toy with more bells and whistles. We also have a Highlander (2006) that keeps on keeping on. I do drive a 2019 Ford F-150 V6 turbo that performs wonderfully. I like Toyota and Ford.

 

[bstnh1]

That's a very good point, and it's why I keep my '98 Tacoma on the road. I typically spend $300 - $500 each year on repairs other than maintenance. I briefly considered getting at new Tacoma at $38,000 USD ... but nope, the old one mostly does what I need. I'd not take it on a long trip, but for local use it's fine.

OTOH, if it was my daily vehicle, I'd replace it as I need a vehicle that is 100% reliable, and my confidence is not there. A co-worker brags about how little he spends when buying a car, but his is in the shop on a monthly basis, often for minor things. Would a newer vehicle cost him more each month? Possibly, but he'd not have to Uber to and from work for 3 days each month ...

It's a trade-off.

Speaking of new Tacomas. I have a 2016 SR5 4WD, V-6 that I paid about $30K for. I recently looked at what Toyota is offering for 2024 Tacomas - anywhere from $48k and up for a comparable truck but no longer offered in a 6 cylinder. That's a 66% increase in 8 years. Looks like I'll be driving the one I have until they box me up for the long dirt nap!

 

[winemaker81]

Speaking of new Tacomas. I have a 2016 SR5 4WD, V-6 that I paid about $30K for. I recently looked at what Toyota is offering for 2024 Tacomas - anywhere from $48k and up for a comparable truck but no longer offered in a 6 cylinder. That's a 66% increase in 8 years. Looks like I'll be driving the one I have until they box me up for the long dirt nap!

The value of used cars is extreme. Two years ago I looked at the value of my 2015 Camry, it was 75% greater than I expected. We typically keep vehicles 10 years or until there's an issue or other need, so I wasn't in the market to trade. However, I'd been watching the news and knew used vehicles were worth premium prices. We decided to trade it in, and received nearly double the pre-COVID price for a 7 yo Camry XLE with 100K miles (no accidents or damage).

Mrs. WM81 and I discussed it, considered what the vehicle might be worth in 3 years if we traded at our normal point, considered that the high value of used cars would cease at some unforeseen point, and decided to do it. Car sales were WAY down, and the dealer tried to lowball us, but they coughed up.

Note -- I'm told it's a common tactic for car dealers to leave the buyers alone at some point in an office, and listen on a microphone in the desk phone. I priced my car on CarMax and had a print out with me. Mrs. WM81 asked what I wanted to do about the very low trade-in offer. I informed her that if they dealer didn't meet the price, we'd be walking. She thought I sounded angry.

Mrs. WM81 whispered in my ear, "They can hear us." I whispered back, "I know," and I winked at her.

Two minutes later the sales manager was there to grudgingly offer $100 less than the CarMax offer. The hardest part for me was not laughing.

So ... if at a dealer, assume you are under observation at all times, and use it to your advantage. Also, I'm not a great negotiator. My best tactic is a willingness to walk away ... which the dealer does not want to happen.

 

[FlamingoEmporium]

2008 Tacoma. I miss my 2001, but had to upgrade because of my daily commute back then. This one should last until I croak. Comes in handy for pulling stumps out after hurricanes. Finally had To get front brakes at 80,000