Up front cold maceration

[chatters]

I'm experimenting next vintage with doing cold maceration pre and post alcoholic fermentation. for both batches I'll be doing semi-carbonic maceration (so some whole grapes as well as crush). With the pre (up front) cold maceration:
Do I need to add sulphur?
Is there any issue with stem inclusion?
Should I add oak/yeast at this juncture or wait?
Thanks,
chatters

 

[davidfilip]

1. Do I need to add sulphur?
I would recommend adding small dosage (15 - 30ppm).

2. Is there any issue with stem inclusion?
Yes, more compounds get dissolved into your wine. Not big deal if you are doing red wine, might be problem for white wine. The problem could be with unripe/unhealthy grapes.

3. Should I add oak/yeast?
There is no need to add yeast pre alcoholic fermentation. Yeasts are inactive when the temperature is lower then 12C (or so).

 

[chatters]

thanks

thanks David,
that's greatly appreciated. I'll only include the stalks if they're ripe enough to warrant it - don't want any green notes! And yes, it will be a red.
Just one further question...as this will be in carboys, do you think putting oak in at this time will be an issue? Or is it merely a matter of choice i.e. with the pre-mac there will only be reduced oak impact because of the relatively small amount of time and the lack of alcohol to assist with the extraction of flavour.
cheers,
Chatters

 

[vacuumpumpman]

I am not sure where you are located - but I will pick and ferment in September and cold stabilize in late November and again before i am ready to bottle - sometimes i might not cold stabilize the 2nd part due to time restraints .

 

[davidfilip]

I didn't experiment with oak chips much, but when I am doing red wines in stainless steel tanks I do add small amounts of oak chips (packed in the bag) after MLF. I keep it there for two or three weeks, just to fixate the colour. There is almost no hint of oak at nose.

This is mostly my personal preference, it depends on style of wine you want to make.

 

[JohnT]

Just to add my two cents...

I would recommend that you remove all stems at the point of crush regardless of it being red or white wine. Stems will add unfavorable tannins and will make the wine bitter.

I also recommend a higher PPM of k-meta (more like 40 ppm).

As far as yeast, I agree that there is not point to adding it prior to your initial cold stabilize. If you stabilize at under 60 degrees, chances are that your yeast will not become active. After your first round of stabilization, warm the must up to 70 degrees, then pitch your yeast.

Oak is a matter of choice. It all depends on how much you might use and the specific form of wood (chips, cube, beans, etc). You need t consider the dosage, how long the must should be on the oak, and how long you plan to cold stabilize (or the earliest opportunity you have to remove the oak from the must.

I have tried oaking prefermentation, and have not really been a big fan of the results. IMHO, I get way more extraction post-fermentation as the alcohol is a great solvent in extracting oak characteristics. This is just my opinion and others may disagree.

 

[4score]

A lot of "stem" info in this article.

http://www.princeofpinot.com/article/865/

 

[chatters]

Hi all,

thanks for your kind comments, thoughts and feedback, they are all greatly appreciated. Just to answer some of your queries and provide a little more information:

I'm down in Australia but I like to have all of my plans well in place prior to next vintage which, for me, will probably be next March. I'll be using Shiraz grapes, from 20+y/o vines, that I'll harvest myself and probably triage and prep on site.

Great article on stems. I've used them before a couple of vintages ago - utilising the chew 'em and crunch 'em approach with regard to ripeness - as whole bunches at about 10% of total - and it seemed to come out quite well, lending weight to the mid-palate and some earthy characteristics. As a side benefit I also picked up a little of that Carbonic Maceration characteristic which lightened and elevated the fruit component. This year the stems were green as all get out so I just stuck with 10% whole berry and only reaped the CM benefit.

Thanks for the tips on oak. They can stay out for the pre-maceration batch. I'll be including 'raw' oak chips with the alcoholic fermentation as per Clark Smith's Postmodern Winemaking - I did it for the first time this year with one batch and it has worked rather well (though the wine is still going through its rather long-winded MLF). And I'll be applying any additional oak post MLF as well. Probably more as a flavour enhancer and colour fixer than anything else.

I'm in two minds about the sulphur thing I must confess. I know I'm going to inoculate with Lalvin Rhone 2226 but part of me wants to let it get up to temp and get some 'wild' (dirty/filthy/funky) ferment going and part of me wants to just make a wine that is pleasant to drink! I suspect that I'll take a more vigorous approach with regard to sulphur application for my pre and post maceration wines, as well as my control batch. Wild ferment can be so unpredictable...

thanks again,

cheers,
Chatters

 

[JohnT]

Chatters,

It seems that you have a good, firm, plan there.

Please be sure to let us know how it all turns out.

Also, Pictures are always treasured!