Too much yeast nutrient?

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offy1

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Any advise would be helpful. I'm pretty new to wine making from fruit. Sorry for the long read!

I made a batch of blueberry wine - recipe originally for 1 gallon. I multiplied to 5 gallons. When I got to the yeast I realized I probably screwed up the yeast nutrient. Knowing I only needed 1 pkg of yeast for 5 gallons, I probably did not need to multiply the yeast nutrient x5. I now think the original recipe was probably a bit high to start as well. It called for 2 tsp of yeast nutrient for a 1 gallon recipe. So of coarse x5 - I put in 10 tsp. I have been googling and trying to find info on DAP. I know now about the issue with over using the yeast nutrient and the concern of producing Ethyl Carbonate, but cannot find any info if it is fixable. When I realized my blunder I went to my local wine supply store to inquire. I was told to add 1 crushed Camden tablet, mix well, wait 24 hours, then repitch another yeast RC212. Mixed really well. It has been sitting in secondary since August 17th. Should I have used 5 camden tablets for 5 gallons?

My initial SG at start on Aug 2nd was 1.114.
On Aug 13 SG was 1.064
On Aug 17th SG 1.044 When I transferred it to a secondary. Worried about bad stuff on bottom!

When I woke up for work the next morning the bung had popped out and the top of the carboy looked like an active volcano! LOL Never thought blueberries would leave so much fine fruit sediment. LEARNING EXPERIENCE!

It has been sitting in the carboy. I can see really fine bubbles rising up against the top of the glass. Not nearly as active as it was, but still active. It smells OK. I was going to rack it off the lees today into another carboy. Am I wasting my time on a lost batch because of the Yeast Nutrient? Was the advise to put camden tablet in correct ,or helpful? Was it enough? Do I actually have a problem, or am I overthinking it? Don't want to poison myself or anyone else.
 

D&S

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The way I read yeast nutrient package is 1 tsp per galloon of must, thats what I use for my concords.
 

D&S

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Googled yeast nutrient in wine and it states excess yeast nutrients can lead to vigorous fermentation and can alter the aroma compound produced by the yeast, also may contribute to microbial spoilage during aging. I would let it ferment down and then transfer to clean carboy. Maybe the yeast nutrients will settle with yeast aftrr fermentation.
 

Rice_Guy

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The way I read yeast nutrient package is 1 tsp per galloon of must, thats what I use for my concords.
Nutrient is added per gallon of juice. The theory is that yeast will continue to multiply till they reach a certain density therefore a three gallon bucket would be three X and a six gallon bucket would be six X (yeast foams so don’t do six in six though).
If you had five times the nutrient you would have excess but would survive. By the way, my preference is natural nutrient as Fermaid O or Fermax. DAP is kinda like giving candy to a two year old, ,,, but if that is what you used I started with DAP too.
 

offy1

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Nutrient is added per gallon of juice. The theory is that yeast will continue to multiply till they reach a certain density therefore a three gallon bucket would be three X and a six gallon bucket would be six X (yeast foams so don’t do six in six though).
If you had five times the nutrient you would have excess but would survive. By the way, my preference is natural nutrient as Fermaid O or Fermax. DAP is kinda like giving candy to a two year old, ,,, but if that is what you used I started with DAP too.

So you think I'm ok and don't need to do anything? Just continue as per normal and observe! My concern was the possibility of producing the carcinogen Ethyl Carbonate. I don't know how much is too much! I will have to look for the Fermaid O or Fermax for future.

Thank you for responding! :)
 

offy1

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Googled yeast nutrient in wine and it states excess yeast nutrients can lead to vigorous fermentation and can alter the aroma compound produced by the yeast, also may contribute to microbial spoilage during aging. I would let it ferment down and then transfer to clean carboy. Maybe the yeast nutrients will settle with yeast aftrr fermentation.
Yes I am hoping it will settle out. I think I experienced the vigorous ferment when the Bung shot. Hopefully that's the worst of it!

Thank you for responding D&S
 
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mikewatkins727

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Campden tablets are one per gallon. Five gallons, 5 tablets. Yeast nutrient is now dissolved in the wine and will not settle out but that is okay. At this point all systems go, full speed ahead!
 

Rice_Guy

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YES . . ethyl carbamate is a mild carcinogen, and there is some formed in any fermentation where urea is used. The lethal dose for 50% of the population is 1.2 gm per Kg body weight when tested in rats. Scaling this up it would be 81.6 grams for a 150 pound individual.

You are dealing with a five gallon batch where you added the recipe recommended DAP rate one per gallon (ie ten teaspoons at 5 gm per teaspoon DAP). Two teaspoons sounds excessive since your DAP bottle probably says one per gallon. ,,,,, you only added double what most recipes would do. The excess (25gm) is available for reacting with alcohol. The urea metabolized by the yeast becomes part of the cell walls and gets removed with the lees
Next will you drink the whole five gallons in one day, probably not, maybe half a bottle a day. Therefore Your actual dosage per day might be one fiftieth of the excess of 25 grams DAP. ,,,

You don’t want to overdose every batch, but on one carboy it won’t kill you. Now if you were in a rat study and forced to drink this kind of wine as your only water source, the 11% alcohol would kill you. By the way ethyl carbamate is naturally in a variety of foods as bread, soy sauce, distilled beverages, beer and wine. , , , , Are we going to remove these from the grocery stores?
So you think I'm ok and don't need to do anything? Just continue as per normal and observe! My concern was the possibility of producing the carcinogen Ethyl Carbamate. I don't know how much is too much! I will have to look for the Fermaid O or Fermax for future.
 

offy1

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YES . . ethyl carbamate is a mild carcinogen, and there is some formed in any fermentation where urea is used. The lethal dose for 50% of the population is 1.2 gm per Kg body weight when tested in rats. Scaling this up it would be 81.6 grams for a 150 pound individual.

You are dealing with a five gallon batch where you added the recipe recommended DAP rate one per gallon (ie ten teaspoons at 5 gm per teaspoon DAP). Two teaspoons sounds excessive since your DAP bottle probably says one per gallon. ,,,,, you only added double what most recipes would do. The excess (25gm) is available for reacting with alcohol. The urea metabolized by the yeast becomes part of the cell walls and gets removed with the lees
Next will you drink the whole five gallons in one day, probably not, maybe half a bottle a day. Therefore Your actual dosage per day might be one fiftieth of the excess of 25 grams DAP. ,,,

You don’t want to overdose every batch, but on one carboy it won’t kill you. Now if you were in a rat study and forced to drink this kind of wine as your only water source, the 11% alcohol would kill you. By the way ethyl carbamate is naturally in a variety of foods as bread, soy sauce, distilled beverages, beer and wine. , , , , Are we going to remove these from the grocery stores?
Thank you so much! I definitely feel better now. It wa needling the back of my head. I am learning so much on this forum. I lose a lot of time reading here. Great information!

Thank you so much for the response ; )
 

offy1

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Campden tablets are one per gallon. Five gallons, 5 tablets. Yeast nutrient is now dissolved in the wine and will not settle out but that is okay. At this point all systems go, full speed ahead!
Yes that was my understanding for the Camden tablets 1/5.
What a relief!

Thank you for your time.
 

Rice_Guy

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A Camden tablet is 0.5 grams of compressed metabisulphite (potassium or else sodium). ,,, I use 50 ppm/ 0.2 grams of powder form metabisulphite on most additions. Most folks will put one tablet in a five gallon carboy.
Should I have used 5 camden tablets for 5 gallons? . . . Don't want to poison myself or anyone else.
Metabisulphite ionizes in an acidic environment to produce free SO2 which is consumed by reacting with oxygen or other oxidizing molecules. SO2 is toxic to many bacterial and fungal families, ,,, and in high enough concentration to good yeast and humans, ,,, plus it burns the lungs and even tastes kinda like matches, follow the package directions.
 

mikewatkins727

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Campden tablets are one per gallon. Five gallons, 5 tablets. Yeast nutrient is now dissolved in the wine and will not settle out but that is okay. At this point all systems go, full speed ahead!
Oops! I stand corrected. It is suppose to be 1 tablet per 5 gallon.
 

winemaker81

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Oops! I stand corrected. It is suppose to be 1 tablet per 5 gallon.
You were right the first time -- it is 1 tablet per gallon. If using K-meta, the dosage is 1/4 tsp per 5 gallons.

When I woke up for work the next morning the bung had popped out and the top of the carboy looked like an active volcano! LOL Never thought blueberries would leave so much fine fruit sediment. LEARNING EXPERIENCE!
You transferred out of the primary WAY too early. I rarely rack if the SG is above 1.010 as the fermentation will be too vigorous for a closed container, and even then, I leave a large head space in case the fermentation is more vigorous than anticipated. The result, as you discovered, can be your very own volcano! [This has happened to a lot of us.]

A frequent question in the last month has been, "should I throw this batch out?"

Winemaking is an exercise in patience -- everything takes time and cannot be rushed. If the wine smells good, it almost certainly is good. Trust your nose! [Keep in mind that a "good" smell in a young wine is not the same as in an older wine. A young wine probably will not smell like the 2 yo bottle you purchased.]

If the wine smells bad? Diagnose the problem first. You can always toss it later if it proves to be unfixable. Wine is very forgiving, and many problems can be corrected.
 
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