this has nothing to do with making wine

[scotty]

Not exactly ---any way.
Since i have gotten this wine making addiction, I am getting to learn something about basic chemistry.
I was at wall mart and saw pool liquid bleach((shocker)
I dont have a pool and never have but the thought of making my own bleach for washing my whites came to mind.
Sooooo off to google (( never had chemistry in school)((mistake))
I found that household chlorene bleach at standard strength is a 5.2% solution.
Also the new super bleach is a 7% solution.
I searched high and low. Somewhere along the line i found that the active ingredient is sodium hyperchlorite.
Then another 2 revelations. 1 Lye is sodium hyperchlorite crystals and so is the stuff sold by pool supply places.
I HAVE MADE MISTAKES IN MY 65 YEARS AND ACTUALLU APPRECIATE CORRECTION IF MY FINDINGS ARE NOT CORRECT
Sooo now i have to figure how to make this solution. The problem is that the crystals are a solid and the water is a liquid.


More searching and i come up with a familiar word. A MOLAR solution.
Maybe this doesnt apply but it made reference to a formula for solids and liquids being combined. (((Disolved????? who knows))).


I have a book entitled chemistry for dummys but i see how many specialty people are on this website and thought i woud ask for help first.


Will anyone find the time to help me.
Why do I want to do this. Just to see if i can do it.
Also being afrugal person((except in my

hobbies)) has allowed an un educated man to get by in this world

 

[smurfe]

Scotty, I have a pool I maintain and buying regular bleach is much cheaper than buying pool chlorine. Until I get my saltwater generator installed that produces chlorine, I have been using regular household bleach in my pool and my chlorine expense has dropped drastically. I have never used the liquid shock before and use the granules but I have always seen that the liquid cost even more.


In fact, I use other household chemicals instead of buying from pool supply houses. I use baking soda to raise my pH and 20 Mule Team Borax to adjust my alkalinity levels. These are the same products repackaged with huge mark ups by the pool industry. What I never could understand is the need for both these products as pH affects alkalinity levels. Raising the pH should raise the alkalinity level but it don't in pool chemistry. Maybe Masta can explain this.


One important thing though, be very careful mixing bleach and water as well. It can cause quite an uproar and during my years in EMS, I ran many a call from burns caused by improper mixing. I really don't think you will save any money using pool chlorine at all.


Smurfe

 

[masta]

I agree with smurfe and don't think you would save anything trying to make your own bleach from pool chlorine or shock and run the risk of exposing yourself to getting hurt.


Some facts:


HOUSEHOLD BLEACH
Household bleach contain sodium hypochlorite in a 4-7% solution. Some sodium hydroxide (lye) is added to keep the pH high to avoid decomposition. If the solution is made more acidic, sodium hypochlorite will dissociate, producing chlorine gas and oxygen.


Sodium hypochlorite is one of the best disinfectants known, killing bacteria, yeasts, fungus, spores, even viruses.



It is made by bubbling chlorine gas through a solution of sodium hydroxide.


In the environment, it breaks down into water, oxygen, and table salt.



POOL CHLORINE
Calcium hypochlorite is the main ingredient in swimming pool chlorine tablets.


Calcium hypochlorite is one of the best disinfectants known, killing bacteria, yeasts, fungus, spores, even viruses.


Calcium hypochlorite is used to disinfect water supplies and swimming pools more than its sodium cousin sodium hypochlorite (household bleach), because it can be sold as a solid (it does not attract moisture from the air and clump up like sodium hypochlorite powder does)
POOL WATER


pH is a measure of how acidic or basic the water is. pH is a logarithmic scale from 0-14, with 7 being neutral. Below 7, a substance is defined as being acidic, while levels above 7 are said to be basic or alkaline












TOTAL ALKALINITY: A close cousin of pH, the level of alkalinity in the water is a measurement of all the carbonates, bicarbonates, hydroxides and other alkaline substances found in the pool water. pH is alkaline dependent; that is, alkalinity is defined as the ability of the water to resist changes in pH. Also known as the buffering capacity of the water, alkalinity keeps the pH from "bouncing" all over the place.Edited by: masta

 

[Waldo]

What did you say masta?

I dont think i will ever get this PH, Alkinity thingy straight in my ole feeble mindEdited by: Waldo

 

[masta]

Study up since there will be a test on Monday!

 

[Wade E]

You and the most of us. I guess thats why we call him MASTA !!!

 

[scotty]

i guess no one knows how many ounces of sodium chlorite must be mixed with a gallon of water to end up woth a 5 or 6 % solution. I will have to resort to the old reliable hydrometer. A 5.2% solution is suposed to have a S.G. of 1.2
I was hoping that some wizz would be able to calculate this for me.

 

[PolishWineP]

Waldo and Wade, I'll be meeting you after school for the study group. I knew I married Bert for a reason! He does the chemistry here!

 

[Wade E]

I have the basic acid test with the test tube and the big and little
bottle of solution and know how to use it. Thats as far as I'll go for
awhile. Maybe someday I'll man up and get into PH's, but for now that
works for me.

 

[OilnH2O]

I guess my take on all this...since I DON'T have a pool... is that there must be a difference between SODIUM hypochlorite and CALCIUM hypochlorite.


AND, that difference must beabout the same as the "difference" betweenPOTASSIUM metabisulfite and SODIUM metabisulfite -- and though I'm still a newbie, I've learned the hard way that there IS A DIFFERENCE!

 

[smurfe]

pH is a measure of how acidic or basic the water is. pH is a logarithmic scale from 0-14, with 7 being neutral. Below 7, a substance is defined as being acidic, while levels above 7 are said to be basic or alkaline












TOTAL ALKALINITY: A close cousin of pH, the level of alkalinity in the water is a measurement of all the carbonates, bicarbonates, hydroxides and other alkaline substances found in the pool water. pH is alkaline dependent; that is, alkalinity is defined as the ability of the water to resist changes in pH. Also known as the buffering capacity of the water, alkalinity keeps the pH from "bouncing" all over the place.

I confused Total Alkalinity with alkalinity. I know from my paramedic classes and learning to read blood gasses that for example I administered Sodium Bicarbonate to a patient their pH would rise increasing alkalinity buffering carbonic acids as well. If they were not breathing carbonic acids will build in the intracellular fluid and their pH will drop due to the lack of perfusion.


This is just the acid base balance and has nothing to do with Total Alkalinity. If I artificially ventilate then I would blow off carbonic acids and the pH will raise thus showing a rise in alkalinity. From my studies every time there is a shift in pH, there is a shift in alkalinity or acidity.


To bring it into winemakers terms, if I add acid to my wine, thatwill cause a drop in alkalinity in the wine. I had always wondered if when they speak of acidity in wine if they really meant alkalinity.


Smurfe

 

[scotty]

I guess my take on all this...since I DON'T have a pool... is that there must be a difference between SODIUM hypochlorite and CALCIUM hypochlorite.


AND, that difference must beabout the same as the "difference" betweenPOTASSIUM metabisulfite and SODIUM metabisulfite -- and though I'm still a newbie, I've learned the hard way that there IS A DIFFERENCE!

I believe the articles i have readsay exactly what you are saying. I think both are able to make the bleach i am trying to make..