Sulphur smell is back!! Grrrrrr

[cdevrard]

Ok, I posted a few days ago about some sulphur smell in my primary ferment here. http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f6/slight-sulphur-smell-my-new-plum-wine-batch-46407/

Now I have gone to secondary, air locked and everything seemed okay. Tonight I went to check the SG and there is a definite sulphur smell again. It isn't super bad but it is there. Is this ok, or should I be doing something to quell this situation? If so what? Should I rack it off the sediment? It has only been a few days. Temperature of the must/wine has remained between 72-75 degrees. I use One Step sanitizer on all equipment. This is really getting me down!

Thanks for any ideas, help or instructions.

CE

 

[Thig]

Have you splash it back and forth between 2 primary buckets, that has helped when I have had this. The splash seems to get rid of the smell by the next day.

Some call this splash racking

 

[cdevrard]

Thig, Yes I did. I only did this one time in the primary process. Should I do it again? Wouldn't introducing oxygen at this point be bad?

Is there anything else I should be doing? Please help! I can't stand to think of losing this beautiful batch of wine.

Thank you,

CE

 

[Thig]

I never want to advise someone to do something that might cause them to lose their wine so maybe someone with more experience can answer. But my thinking is if it is not fully degassed then splashing it would not hurt, it would just help drive off some of the CO2. If it is a choice between losing it to sulfur or chancing some oxidation I would take the chance.

Proceed at your own risk.

 

[Turock]

The best approach is to get some Reduless and treat this wine. When it comes to H2S, you cannot just let it go. Morewine carries it--get some and dose this wine as soon as possible.

 

[cdevrard]

Just ordered the reduless. It should be here by Wed. Still wondering if I should rack off the sediment, and splash a bit in the meantime. I'm thinking what Thig said makes sense as there should still be co2 in the liquid. Anyone else have a opinion on this?

Thanks very much!

CE

The best approach is to get some Reduless and treat this wine. When it comes to H2S, you cannot just let it go. Morewine carries it--get some and dose this wine as soon as possible.

 

[Turock]

Yes, rack off the sediment. Even tho spash racking may help some, lots of splash racking can also cause oxidation. The Reduless will take care of the H2S issue.

Most H2S issues are due to lack of a good nutrient program. You should always step-feed your nutrient to avoid this issue.

 

[cdevrard]

Thank you again Turock, I just got a shipping confirmation for the Reduless. Yay. I'll go ahead and rack off the sediment today then. I guess at this point (no further fermentation going on) I won't splash rack and just wait for the Reduless.

This is the first time I tried to step feed my must. Guess I didn't quite get it right. Seems like to keep the HS2 smell away it takes much more nutrient than is called for by the recipe. I mentioned in my last thread on this issue that I split the nutrient, but got HS2 about 1 day in. At that point I added the rest of the nutrient (and probably a little more) and did a vigorous splash rack! Everything seemed pretty good after that. Just a ever so slight an odor. But after being in secondary for a short period it was back. Frustrating as hell. I really want to get this down pat. Almost everything I make is a fruit wine so I've got to get a handle on this.

Anyhow, I'm rambling! Thanks again,

CE

Yes, rack off the sediment. Even tho spash racking may help some, lots of splash racking can also cause oxidation. The Reduless will take care of the H2S issue.

Most H2S issues are due to lack of a good nutrient program. You should always step-feed your nutrient to avoid this issue.

 

[Turock]

OK---well, here's how you should use nutrient. Pitch the yeast and wait for it to become active. Then you take the entire nutrient dose and split it in half. First half goes in when the yeast becomes active. Second half at 50% sugar reduction. Now this is for a DAP nutrient.

If using Fermaid K, the second half goes in at 1/3 sugar reduction.

What nutrient are you using? There is really nothing wrong with DAP. But Fermaid K has organic AND inorganic forms of nitrogen which can produce a smoother ferment. DAP is all inorganic. For many years--all we used was DAP and we had no H2S issues. So what dose are you using? DAP is 1 tsp per gallon. If you're using less than that, then that might be the reason for the H2S.

You're correct in saying you need to get a handle on this. And smart to figure it out. We make lots of fruit wines too and never had issues so it might be that you're not using a correct doseage of nutrient.

 

[cdevrard]

Turock, That is very helpful. Thank you. I am just using DAP at the moment. And I was using 1tsp per gallon as recommended. I was putting the 1st half of the nutrient in with everything else (excepting yeast) and that differs a bit from your method of putting the 1st half in when the ferment becomes active.

I am definitely going to switch to the Fermaid K, along with your directions of, 2nd half at 1/3 sugar reduction. I'd be tickled pink if that ends my HS2 problems.

Thanks again, this post will be copied and pasted into my notes!

Best,

CE

OK---well, here's how you should use nutrient. Pitch the yeast and wait for it to become active. Then you take the entire nutrient dose and split it in half. First half goes in when the yeast becomes active. Second half at 50% sugar reduction. Now this is for a DAP nutrient.

If using Fermaid K, the second half goes in at 1/3 sugar reduction.

What nutrient are you using? There is really nothing wrong with DAP. But Fermaid K has organic AND inorganic forms of nitrogen which can produce a smoother ferment. DAP is all inorganic. For many years--all we used was DAP and we had no H2S issues. So what dose are you using? DAP is 1 tsp per gallon. If you're using less than that, then that might be the reason for the H2S.

You're correct in saying you need to get a handle on this. And smart to figure it out. We make lots of fruit wines too and never had issues so it might be that you're not using a correct doseage of nutrient.

 

[Turock]

All the directions I've ever read on nutrient say to pitch the first dose when the yeast becomes active. If you think about this, pitching the nutrient before the yeast is active might be giving nutrient to some of the normal flora on the fruit and maybe they're using it and producing H2S as their by-product. You sure don't want competitive organisms using the nutrient---you want the yeast to dominate the must so that the yeast is using the nutrient. It's possible that this is part of your problem.

Also, when you detect H2S in the must and you are above 50% sugar reduction, you can get a dose of DAP or Fermaid K because it also has DAP in it, into the must. After the 50% sugar reduction you have to go to the Reduless. You always need to attack H2S as soon as you detect it or else, over time, it will form mercaptans.

Try this protocol with the nutrient on your next ferment and see if this doesn't get rid of the problem.

 

[fabrictodyefor]

I have never had a sulphur smell problem but I often read threads like this to help me if/when problems arise! Your timing of adding the nutrient, Turock, makes a lot of sense to me. My first batch of wine was definitely a beginners luck, I did not split the nutrient and it stopped fermenting at 1.020. It was a great wine, if maybe a little on the sweet side. I do say was, because there is none left! But since then I have split the nutrient and have not had a wine quit fermenting until dry since then.

 

[Turock]

Yes, a stuck or sluggish ferment is an indication of not enough nutrient when the yeast needs it. This is why pitching only one dose of nutrient is not enough when you understand the life-cycle of yeast. It's budding and making new generations of yeast cells. The older generation is using up that first dose of nutrient, and there's not enough nitrogen left for the newer generations. This is why you pitch that second dose at 50% sugar reduction. When the yeast is looking for the nitrogen it needs and not getting it, it can become stressed. Nitrogen is used for amino acid production. In the absence of enough oxygen-based amino acids, some yeast will go after the sulfur-based ones and generate H2S as a by-product. As we all know, nitrogen is the main component in nutrient that the yeast needs. Micro-vitamins that some nutrients have is nice---but not as necessary as nitrogen.

This is why following a recipe--as new winemakers often do--will not give you enough info as to the techniques that need to be employed for a smooth ferment. This is why other reading and learning is necessary.