Cellar Craft Stupid question of the month

[RJB]

As an ex-pat Aussie living in the Pacific NW of the US, I have always held Canadians in high regard. They can't swim worth a hoot, but they can whip our a--ses at ice hockey.

That said, I see it as a sign of enlightment that the major producers of wine ingredient kits seem to be located in canuck-land. WE, CC, RJS, MM, and whoever else.

Why is this? is it a tax thing? an intelligence thing? I mean, it's so cold up there.

thanks for any information, inquiring minds need to know,

Bob

 

[robie]

I don't know the whole story, but I heard that years ago the Canadian gov raised taxes on alcoholic beverages to some really serious level. The tax did not affect homemade wine. It sparked a new revolution in home wine/beer making, because many folks could no longer easily afford a nice bottle of wine. To support this move, several companies started making wine kits, so home wine making could be much easier.

I could be totally wrong, but that's my two-cents worth; now, some of you Canadians please fill in the gaps.

 

[mmadmikes1]

I don't know the whole story, but I heard that years ago the Canadian gov raised taxes on alcoholic beverages to some really serious level. The tax did not affect homemade wine. It sparked a new revolution in home wine/beer making, because many folks could no longer easily afford a nice bottle of wine. To support this move, several companies started making wine kits, so home wine making could be much easier.

I could be totally wrong, but that's my two-cents worth; now, some of you Canadians please fill in the gaps.

LOLOL Taxed an industry into existence. Robie has it right.

 

[Runningwolf]

You're right they are doing an awesome job with the kits. If you ever get up to the Falls take a ride round Niagara on the Lake to all of their wineries. Great stuff!

I am sure CPfan will be on later and have something to say about this.

 

[RJB]

"LOLOL Taxed an industry into existence. Robie has it right..."

That is hilarious! The Aussies should get on board with this. Last time I was back home I tried to buy a bottle of Tanqueray gin for my mother - they wanted over $70 for it! I used to complain because the same bottle costs around $45 here in WA state, but only $27 in Nevada.

regards

Bob

 

[Dugger]

I'd agree that taxes is what drives this industry - sin taxes were made popular up here many years ago in order to drive up government revenues - taxes on products that were considered sinful, especially alcohol and cigarettes.
There are not yet taxes on beer and wine kits so there is a significant savings. I also think many more people drink wine than used to so that helps drive the market, although this is not limited to Canada by any stretch.
Interestingly, I just arrived in Vancouver yesterday and visited a U-Vint store today and talked to the owner and he told me that the market is shrinking in Vancouver and that 2-3 operations have recently shut down from lack of business. His theory was that the local clientele are more interested in immediate gratification ( buying wine) than the time required to make it. I'm not sure I buy this completely since there is more to wine making than just the end product. However, he knows better than me what's going on here.
West coasters, whether above or below the border seem to be trend setters whereas we on the east coast, eg Nova Scotia, seem to be trend followers and wine making is still a growing industry back home

 

[ibglowin]

And that is the perils of having no competition and State run liquor stores......

I used to complain because the same bottle costs around $45 here in WA state, but only $27 in Nevada.

regards

Bob

 

[cpfan]

Interestingly, I just arrived in Vancouver yesterday and visited a U-Vint store today and talked to the owner and he told me that the market is shrinking in Vancouver and that 2-3 operations have recently shut down from lack of business. His theory was that the local clientele are more interested in immediate gratification ( buying wine) than the time required to make it. I'm not sure I buy this completely since there is more to wine making than just the end product. However, he knows better than me what's going on here.

Dugger:

You are a wine maker; his customers are NOT. They go into the store, select a kit, pay some money, do the minimum, and then come back to bottle. Some will grumble about the effort. No semblance (IMO) of wine making. Having run an FoP, I know the customers. Great customer service, and good inexpensive product gets you customers, but primarily the older folk who are on a fixed income. Most young people can't seem to wait for the light to turn green, never mind wait for some wine. If they can't make it on their iPod/iPhone it's not of interest. [/end soap box]

IMO, another reason that the FoPs shut down is that many give lousy customer service. There are a couple of dealers near me that I don't do business with, because they behave like they don't want my business. Fortunately, there are some others that do want my business. When I ran the store, I won an award for customer service in my small community. That was good, but what was better was the comments from customers. Especially the guys from out of town who came back because I helped them.

BTW, Dan/RunningWolf, your geography needs some help. Seattle WA is way out west. Niagara-on-the-Lake is close to you (and closer to me). Bob/RJB would be better off heading up to the Okanagan Valley (Vernon BC) if he was interestd in Canadian wines. Of course, there are lots of good wineries in WA, and OR too.

BTW2, Dan we're passing thru your neck of the woods tomorrow (Friday) on a quick (hopefully) run south to catch some Spring Training games. Sorry, can't stop to say hi. So this will have to do.

BTW3, responding to somebody named RJB felt kinda strange. I've got a buddy who goes by RJB on a couple of the forums who runs an FoP in Terrace BC.

Steve

 

[Airplanedoc]

I grew up in a area with drive thru liquor stores where you can buy anything in the grocery store 7 days a week. I remember the first time I went to the LCBO (read Ontario State Liquor Store for the other Yanks), They spun the a book around to me to sign for my logged my purchase, I said i'm American and laid greenbacks on the counter, the clerk said no problem and out I went.

Anytime we head up north, we always call ahead and pick my family's preferance to bring with, saves them a fortune.

 

[RJB]

Seems to me that Canada faces a similar issue to Australia - supporting the infrastructure of a geographically large country with a relatively small population. Hence they will tax anything they can possibly get away with - cigarettes and alcohol are always popular targets.

 

[Airplanedoc]

Seems to me that Canada faces a similar issue to Australia - supporting the infrastructure of a geographically large country with a relatively small population. Hence they will tax anything they can possibly get away with - cigarettes and alcohol are always popular targets.

A carton of Smokes has gone up 300% since I left College less than 15 years ago. It has already made it come here too, we are just a few cars back on that runaway train. Fortunatly I don't smoke

 

[Wannabe]

Well, I don't know if that's the explanation or not but I do know about the taxes. Let me see...... they tax every cent I earn, the property I own as well as every service I get and virtually everything I buy. And in the province I live in, they calculate the federal GST first, add that to the cost of your items and then charge provincial sales tax on top of that so they're actually taxing you on the tax. Gotta love it!

 

[Randoneur]

It doesn't have to be that way. When they tried to pass and income tax here, they surounded the capital building and stopped it. Every politician knows the that mentioning the income tax is a career killer. Property taxes are low and sales tax is 10% on everything. Everybody pays if they buy and avoids taxes if they save.

 

[DaveM]

Geez, when you put it that way it seems really depressing. At least you get a lot of value for that. You live in a free, democratic society without threat of conflict or war. You get your healthcare paid for out of those taxes without having to worry about your employment status. The list really goes on and on. (This from a guy living in Alberta with relatively low taxes, I realize!)

Paying tax on tax does seem ridiculous though.

I'm sure a glass of wine will at least dull the pain of tax fatigue!

 

[Randoneur]

It doesn't have to be that way. When they tried to pass an income tax here, they surounded the capital building and stopped it. Every politician knows the that mentioning an income tax is a career killer. Property taxes are low and sales tax is 10% on everything. Everybody pays if they buy and avoids taxes if they save.

 

[Angie]

A few months back I was doing some research on kit manufacturers...couldn't find the exact answer as to why alot are Canadian but just found this article

http://winekitmaking.com/about-winekits/wine-kit-manufacturers-part-1
http://winekitmaking.com/about-winekits/wine-kit-manufacturers-part-2

I have say though - I wasn't sure if ABC Cork was a manufacturer or a distributor of kits. I called them to clarify that point and they were quite snotty about it. You would think they would be more willing to give some information and promote themselves as a manufacturer. I would still buy their products (can be quite cheaper then some other brands) but their customer service does leave something to desire.

Called Vineco as well and they were much better. If memory serves me well: Paklab kits are distributed by Advintage (also somewhat snippy on the phone); Paklab on the east coast and Advintage is in Vancouver; Costco carries the Paklab pails

 

[Angie]

back on my own computer...here is what I found out about Wine Kits...hopefully I got the information correct.

I was thinking it would be an interesting experiment to take a kit, say Cab Sauv, from each of the major manufacturers, ferment the kits under the same conditions and then compare to see which one was better. Also, compare kits under the same "umbrella" - i.e Cab Sauv from Cellar Classic, Heritage, Cru (all RJS)

Unfortunetely I don't drink enough wine to make it a worthwhile project...what about some of you more 'dedicated' wine drinkers

View attachment Wine Kit Manufacturers.pdf