Having a pleasant 1 year old Amarone. It’s very, very young and lives up to the name the “bitter.” Lots of tannin that needs to smooth out. Nice fruity nose though. Should be a big, smooth wonderful wine in another year or so.
WineXpert Selection Amarone w/Skins Extended Maceration
- Thread starter jgmann67
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Here's what I posted on another thread:
My two-continent cabernet sauvignon batch this year ended up in a 3-week extended maceration due to my being busy/lazy, so I have been reading about extended maceration to figure out how long is too long.
It seems like 14-60 days is a good range of benefits, without introducing bitterness from skins and seeds. Some winemakers rack off seeds, leaving skins behind for some time, and then rack off the skins. The benefit seems to be that the extended maceration simulates aging and complexity in a young wine.
There's a chart and some quotes from winemakers here:
https://winefolly.com/review/winemakers-red-wine-secret-extended-maceration/
Here's what I posted on another thread:
My two-continent cabernet sauvignon batch this year ended up in a 3-week extended maceration due to my being busy/lazy, so I have been reading about extended maceration to figure out how long is too long.
It seems like 14-60 days is a good range of benefits, without introducing bitterness from skins and seeds. Some winemakers rack off seeds, leaving skins behind for some time, and then rack off the skins. The benefit seems to be that the extended maceration simulates aging and complexity in a young wine.
There's a chart and some quotes from winemakers here:
https://winefolly.com/review/winemakers-red-wine-secret-extended-maceration/
This article makes me feel a little better about the idea... 6 weeks seems plenty in a wine kit. That's about a 1/3 the way across that scale for fresh grapes (further, I imagine, for kits). I can attest to the tannin extraction and its effect on drinkability, too.
FermentoSapiens
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I made this kit early in 2018, but did not do the EM because i have just one carboy and no bigmouth. But I have some questions. My wine came out totally over-oaked with only the oak included. It really tastes too much oak, and it is really dry (I like it dry, my wife not so much).
Will the oak mellow out later? The wine was bottled in may. Will the oak change character when aged/when? There is no vanilla, chocolate, caramel taste of it, only oak wood. I must admit that I never have experienced the special tastes mentioned here, when oaked wine at home. So when I taste it in store-bought wine I wonder If they have used vanilla beans, not only oak..?
Will EM help to mellow out too much oak taste? What about sweetness and acidity. Will the wine be more or less sweet after EM and aging, or more or less acidic in taste? I have just made wine a few times (7-8 batches) so are not that experienced in what is happening with the taste over time (nothing has been aged more than 3-4 months). Well, the amarone is now 7 aged months from bottling. I have 10 bottles left and feel I have been really patient. When others here ages their wine for 2-3 years or more, it is really impressing for me. If EM helps so the aging is going faster, it is really interesting.
Will the oak mellow out later? The wine was bottled in may. Will the oak change character when aged/when? There is no vanilla, chocolate, caramel taste of it, only oak wood. I must admit that I never have experienced the special tastes mentioned here, when oaked wine at home. So when I taste it in store-bought wine I wonder If they have used vanilla beans, not only oak..?
Will EM help to mellow out too much oak taste? What about sweetness and acidity. Will the wine be more or less sweet after EM and aging, or more or less acidic in taste? I have just made wine a few times (7-8 batches) so are not that experienced in what is happening with the taste over time (nothing has been aged more than 3-4 months). Well, the amarone is now 7 aged months from bottling. I have 10 bottles left and feel I have been really patient. When others here ages their wine for 2-3 years or more, it is really impressing for me. If EM helps so the aging is going faster, it is really interesting.
Berry Juice
Berry Juice
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I'm at day 4 and so far so good. SG is 1.044 and smelling wonderful! Prolly drop in Fermaid O tomorrow. Should be at SG 1.030
EM is not going to make your wine less dry but will make it taste better (smoother and a bit more complex) at an earlier time. The oak will mellow the longer you age it. If your wife prefers off dry then I would recommend you bottle "your" portion of the wine first and then sweeten the latter portion for her. If you tell us your "oaking technique" then we can maybe troubleshoot why it is so strong right now. The vanilla flavours usually come from certain types of oak which most likely won't be the oak chips you get in the kit. You can buy French medium and dark toast oak cubes, spirals and sticks that will probably impart the oaking characteristics you are looking for versus the kit included chips/cubes.
FermentoSapiens
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Thanks Hordak. The oak I used was the powder that came with the amarone kit. I think it was 3 small paperbags with oak powder and the instruction said to put it in the primary in the beginning. Have oaked some other wines with oak chips, they were used in bulk aging after clearing. They was in there for 3-4 weeks and then I bottled. This was not over-oaked, but had nothing else from oak than taste and smell of oak wood. I used American medium roast. About dryness, good tip you gave to split the batch and sweeten the latter portion. Here in Norway I have never seen cubes or spirals, just chips. It is really bad here for winemakers, little to choose from and also very expensive. Most wine-kits available here are 5 litre to make 23 liter Wine. Only one shop have Winexpert kits, which have more juice and they are extremely expensive. This Selection Amarone kit costs about 200 dollar (= about 1.600 NOK). There is nothing to win to buy it from outside either, because of high taxes and shipment costs.
I can get french oak medium chips here so will test it out in next kit. Would love to get cubes or staves though. Last wine I made was from homegrown grapes mixed with a 5 litre kit, because I got only 6 kg grapes this last year. Have only had one plant (the year before I got 10kg from it, but also that was to little so used a cheap kit). Will be interesting to test EM with grapes next fall.
I can get french oak medium chips here so will test it out in next kit. Would love to get cubes or staves though. Last wine I made was from homegrown grapes mixed with a 5 litre kit, because I got only 6 kg grapes this last year. Have only had one plant (the year before I got 10kg from it, but also that was to little so used a cheap kit). Will be interesting to test EM with grapes next fall.
Berry Juice
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Updating, SG 1.030 added 10g Fermaid O and gave it one last stir then put the top on the bucket with the airlock, I'll check on it next week for another stir and do this for the next 3 weeks. Or should I go longer?
Boatboy24
No longer a newbie, but still clueless.
Survey: When doing EM in a Fermonster, are you leaving it under airlock the entire time, or do you switch to the solid lid at some point?
I stir and punch for the first couple weeks. Then when the skins get heavier, I airlock and slosh the wine to keep the skins wet.
Berry Juice
Berry Juice
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This is my first time doing this and I was planning on keeping it under an airlock. I hope that right.
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I start with just a cloth covering stirring twice daily until the S.G. is down to about 1010 and then switch to airlock and stir once daily until S.G. is 995 or less. At that point I stir every 2-3 days for a couple weeks (occasionally thereafter) and top up with CO2 from a cannister. I stay with the airlock all through ferment and EM.
Boatboy24
No longer a newbie, but still clueless.
Thanks all! I pitched BM4X4 into my Bourbon Barrel Zin kit over the weekend. Worried about foam with this yeast, I started the kit in my 7.9 gallon bucket. Things have settled to a nice clean ferment, so tonight I'm moving it into the Fermonster for 6 weeks or so.
Boatboy24
No longer a newbie, but still clueless.
Allright. The transfer went smoothly and I'm sure glad I started it in the bucket. The foaming propensity of the BM4X4 surely would have overflowed the Fermonster. Not a ton of room left with that big grape pack in there.
Crossing my fingers for a successful execution here. If that's the case, I may try to do a ~5 gallon batch with 2 gallons of grape skins in there this spring.
Crossing my fingers for a successful execution here. If that's the case, I may try to do a ~5 gallon batch with 2 gallons of grape skins in there this spring.
Started it on 10/1/18. Added the stuff that came with it (oak chips and grape skins, bagged for ease of removal) stayed with the RC212 t came with. Did a 33 day EM, then racked and So2, no sorbate or clarifiers. Racked again a few weeks later, added the oak cubes that came with it, plus a handful of Xoakers. This is it's current state, it will sit like that until I'm almost ready to bottle, at which point I'll rack and So2 again, let it settle out for at least a couple weeks, then bottle.
Brian - it looks like your winemaking protocols and mine are about the same (I add extra oak cubes at second rack, but am contemplating going to Xoakers or sticks). The only other thing I might suggest is adding some finishing tannins about 6 months before you bottle. I'm a fan of Tannin Riche Extra...
I believe the sticks are cheaper than Xoakers, and they definitely work better than cubes or Xoakers, but the Xoakers are definitely easier to deal with than the other two options, especially when attempting to retrieve the sticks from an empty carboy. Some have suggested tying a fishing line to the stick in order to retrieve it, but laziness prevails. I often times add tannins, usually FT Rouge up front if the kit doesn't include skins and oak chips or powder. I'll add Tannin Riche Extra if I feel it needs a boost after stabilizing.
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