selecting a yeast strain

[winemaker81]

I read an article on WineMakerMag titled What To Consider When Selecting A Yeast, which I found useful. I looked at the author's points and have my own opinions regarding them:

Suitability For Varietal And Application -- I don't see why this point is first, as I see it as the result of the other decisions.

Alcohol Tolerance -- this is #1 for me, as the published tolerance of the strain needs to be 2% above what I intend, since the published number is an average, not a guarantee. If the yeast doesn't have sufficient tolerance, it doesn't matter what other qualities it has.

Temperature Range -- I had not thought of this, but different strains have very different limits. For most applications it doesn't matter, but if cold fermenting, it does.

Nutrient Needs -- I don't consider this in decision making. It's something I address once the strain is chosen, although if deciding between 2 strains, I'll probably go with lower nutrient requirements.

Flavor, Mouthfeel, Aroma Contribution -- this is my #2. I look at what each strain contributes as a major factor in my decision.

Malolactic Compatibility -- If doing MLF, this is important. For me, it's not.

LESSER FACTORS:

Rate of Fermentation -- not an issue for me.

H2S Production -- definitely something to consider, but something I plan for if I go with an H2S producing yeast.

VA Production -- not an issue for me (so far, anyway).

Foam Production -- not an issue for me.

Application Format – dry or liquid, which is not an issue for me, as I use all dried.

Cost -- I agree with the author, Alison Crowe, that yeast is cheap and I want predictability, especially when I've spent over $1,000 on grapes. Trusting whatever is growing on the grapes isn't a good choice for me.

 

[vinny]

I imagine I put WAY too much emphasis on yeast choice. I can get pretty excitable and sometimes I can't decide, but that's because I really haven't compared the same yeast with different varietals to identify the subtleties I like.

These are my two favorite resources for making an informed decision, followed by google. Sometimes you will get lucky with a specific varietal and complimenting yeast choices in an article. Otherwise you get a link back to WMT.

 

[winemaker81]

I imagine I put WAY too much emphasis on yeast choice.

I don't see it that way. Your interest and enthusiasm are perfectly normal. Well, normal for a winemaker.

This is a diverse group, with every level of enthusiasm and interests in every possible topic. For me, this is part of what makes the hobby fun.

Besides being able to drink wine that I made .....

 

[BarrelMonkey]

Suitability For Varietal And Application -- I don't see why this point is first, as I see it as the result of the other decisions.

I always figured this was a means of reducing the myriad possible choices of yeast strain down to a manageable number. If I want to make a syrah, for example, I'll look at the various guides to see what strains are recommended, then narrow my chioces from there (eg am i aiming for big and lush mouthfeel? bright fruit? spicy/peppery?)

but I agree with @vinny that i'm sure I overanalyze my yeast selection, just like every other aspect of my winemaking...

 

[winemaker81]

I always figured this was a means of reducing the myriad possible choices of yeast strain down to a manageable number. If I want to make a syrah, for example, I'll look at the various guides to see what strains are recommended, then narrow my chioces from there (eg am i aiming for big and lush mouthfeel? bright fruit? spicy/peppery?)

I have downloaded numerous yeast charts, and very few recommend by varietal, hence my POV on the subject. The MoreWine! document is very helpful in that regard, although I haven't been using it (and I should).

 

[BigDaveK]

Something tells me I'm not the only one with 6+ kinds of yeast in the fridge.

 

[BarrelMonkey]

I agree, the MoreWine! guide is very helpful. ScottLabs has a useful resource as well; more limited in terms of specific varietals, but they have other useful high-level descriptors such as, eg light/medium/heavy bodied for reds. Here's another one which has specific varietal recommendations.

ETA: And this is great - I have his book (Modern Home Winemaking) and it looks like the yeast/varietal tables therein are also available for free online

 

[Raptor99]

I don't see it that way. Your interest and enthusiasm are perfectly normal. Well, normal for a winemaker.

@vinny You are normal compared to the rest of us on WMT, for what it is worth.

Something tells me I'm not the only one with 6+ kinds of yeast in the fridge.

Only 6? I think I have at least 10, incuding a few ale yeasts I use for hard cider. I guess that makes you normal compared to me.

The factors important to me in choosing a yeast:
#1: Flavor, aroma, mouthfeel contribution

Comments on a few of the others:
* Nutrient needs: I pay attention to this and adjust my nutrients accordingly. It is not a factor in choosing a yeast
* Temperature: Normally not a problem. If I was doing a cold fermentation in the winter, I would need to consider this.
* Suitability for varietal: These lists are almost always about grapes, but I don't make grape wine. So they are irrelevant to me. I do pay attention to recommended yeasts for different types of fruits and mead as a starting place for yeasts I might want to try.
* Rate of Fermentation: I might want to stay away from yeasts with a high rate of fermentation because I believe that rapid fermentation drives off some of the volitile flavor molecules.
* Alcohol tolerance: Not an issue for me since I usually make 12% ABV wines. Nearly any wine yeast can go at least that high.

@winemaker81 Interesting list, thanks for sharing it!

 

[vinny]

@vinny You are normal compared to the rest of us on WMT, for what it is worth.

Normal has never been a goal of mine. I believe that is why I fit in here.

Only 6? I think I have at least 10, incuding a few ale yeasts I use for hard cider. I guess that makes you normal compared to me.

I was going to make a comment, but I didn't want to set him off. I have 10+ strains.

Dave has been at this a couple of months longer than me. We are pretty well gallon for gallon on the amount of wine we have made, but I have made 40 varying wines in 18 months. Dave is pushing 100. Get him stuck on yeast strains, oh my!

The new posts will be... Wild Barn Yeast. I'm Going For It!

 

[Bmd2k1]

I'd be interested in hearing what peeps go to Yeast(s) are for given varietals & blends.

After trials here, I've currently settled on D47 for whites/roses/fruit wines and RC212 for all my reds/red blends.

I'm still open to try others....but these two are providing me with great Vinos currently.

Cheers!

 

[vinny]

I'd be interested in hearing what peeps go to Yeast(s) are for given varietals & blends.

After trials here, I've currently settled on D47 for whites/roses/fruit wines and RC212 for all my reds/red blends.

I'm still open to try others....but these two are providing me with great Vinos currently.

Cheers!

Sometimes less is more. You have the ability to say yes.. These make good wines. You could add one more into the mix and compare batch to batch to see if there is anything dazzling.

I currently have 3 in primary, 9 in bulk. I have to wait quite a while to see if I have a favorite. I have 2 or more on the go using RP15, D254, BM4x4, and RC-212. I have some waiting before I will be able to put them side by side in different varietals and see if I can suss out a winner. And maybe I never will.

On the other hand my Pinot Noir came out awesome. I Chose RC212 because I wanted to add more bright fruit and berry notes to a deeper red. I am Very happy with the outcome. One of my favorites so far. Would I feel the same with one of the other yeasts....? Likely!

Thus my statement that I probably put TOO much consideration into yeast. Do I want Bright fruit or ripe berry... Oh it needs Jam and plum! Ahhhh!

I think as long as you are giving it consideration, you are on the right track.

I pick based on the link I provided above. I haven't been at it long enough to pick a favorite per varietal and I don't know that I could. I like to shake things up too much.

 

[Jovimaple]

I made a lingonberry wine in 2021 that I never liked (which was fine, since it was for a friend), because it had an off-odor. I used Red Star Premier Classique yeast, because that's all I had. I didn't add any extra yeast nutrient besides what I mixed in at the beginning and I'm now wondering, 2 yrs later, if that is what contributed to the off-odor.

I started a new batch this week using the same brand of lingonberry syrup and the same recipe, but this time I researched the yeast and used K1-V1116, and so far everything smells delicious, more like cranberry and with no off-odor. Is it the yeast? Is it the batch of syrup? I'm not sure, but I'm way happier with this batch than I ever was with the first one.

I had told my friend I wasn't going to make it ever again, so she will be surprised - hopefully in a good way - when she gets the new batch in a few months!

 

[vinny]

I had told my friend I wasn't going to make it ever again, so she will be surprised - hopefully in a good way - when she gets the new batch in a few months!

Don't tell her you changed anything.

Admit NOTHING!

And in all seriousness...This is the fun of getting better at this craft.

 

[winemaker81]

On the other hand my Pinot Noir came out awesome. I Chose RC212 because I wanted to add more bright fruit and berry notes to a deeper red. I am Very happy with the outcome. One of my favorites so far. Would I feel the same with one of the other yeasts....? Likely!

One of the biggest mistakes I see people make in general is second guessing themselves. They make the best decision they could at the time, it either turns out less than optimal or they later realize they could have done something different, and they beat themselves about the head and shoulders (metaphorically speaking) for an extended period of time. Sure, there are plenty of times when we need to look back to learn from things, but that's different.

My attitude resembles yours -- I make a decision and go with it. If it works out well, I don't worry about "Better", but if there are lessons to be learned, I try to recognize them. If it doesn't work out? I learn from it and don't repeat a less than optimal choice.

Do I want Bright fruit or ripe berry... Oh it needs Jam and plum! Ahhhh!

Do what I do -- both! Divide the batch, use 2 different strains, and combine after fermentation. A lot of pros do this to get the most from the fruit.

I think as long as you are giving it consideration, you are on the right track.

Here I disagree. If someone uses a given strain for any reason, it's their reason, and there's no need to think further if they don't want to. A lot of kit makers use the yeast in the kit -- I did that for years, until I read an article that recommended using a different strain than EC-1118 to get different results. I tried it and I like it.

As I said in a different thread, every wine yeast is appropriate for making wine, regardless of fruit. Some choices appear better than others, but they all work.

I pay attention to professional winemakers, as they typically have education I don't have and experience beyond what I have. At the same time, I also recognize that the idiot who wired my house was a professional who I'd not trust to screw in a light bulb correctly, so being a professional doesn't mean a winemaker is correct. It also doesn't mean it's good for my situation, especially since I have a single batch to work with and not dozens or hundreds of barrels.

Investigation requires a lot of thought. There's something to be said for using EC-1118, since we know it will ferment a rock.

 

[winemaker81]

I started a new batch this week using the same brand of lingonberry syrup and the same recipe, but this time I researched the yeast and used K1-V1116, and so far everything smells delicious, more like cranberry and with no off-odor. Is it the yeast? Is it the batch of syrup? I'm not sure, but I'm way happier with this batch than I ever was with the first one.

Regardless of how it turns out, you're expanding yourself as a winemaker!

 

[vinny]

Here I disagree. If someone uses a given strain for any reason, it's their reason, and there's no need to think further if they don't want to

Good... I get to nitpick a nitpick. If they have a reason, one would think they have considered it. Even if it is I don't have enough confidence to change anything right now, it's at least acknowledged.

On the higher end kits I don't see there being as drastic of a change because the juice quality is better, but on the lower end kits EC-1118 does them no favors. I've mentioned the brand flavor before. I believe it is just the lacking varietal characteristics due to the additional concentration, and possibly lower end juice. Maybe even Mega Purple. I don't know, but I do know that changing up the yeast really picks those wines up and makes them quite good.

Maybe it is even kit taste I am talking about, no one has explained it well enough for me to identify it, but if changing your yeast alone can eliminate that, it should be open discussion for all levels.

I'm not comfortable with that = considered, but we should be aware of what may seem like a minor change that could significantly improve our wine.

On the other hand I think EC-1118 has it's place. I am not dismissing it. I have it going in a dessert wine right now. Higher ABV tolerance alone has it's place, but in country wines it can offer the better flavor profile depending on your goals.

Do what I do -- both! Divide the batch, use 2 different strains, and combine after fermentation

I should have! After 8 lbs of skins a 6.5 gallon fermenting bucket is unnervingly close to the top. I have crossed fingers.... And a mop!

 

[ceeaton]

Something tells me I'm not the only one with 6+ kinds of yeast in the fridge.

Ah, but how many have expired, lol?

 

[BigDaveK]

Ah, but how many have expired, lol?

Cold does wonders! Just ask the people at the Svalbard Global Seed Vault.

 

[winemaker81]

Good... I get to nitpick a nitpick. If they have a reason, one would think they have considered it. Even if it is I don't have enough confidence to change anything right now, it's at least acknowledged.

Sometimes the reason is that the yeast is already in the kit and it's too much work or completely unnecessary to consider others.

 

[vinny]

Sometimes the reason is that the yeast is already in the kit and it's too much work or completely unnecessary to consider others.

I'm sorry, I can't believe that.

Not on this forum.