scuppernong wine

[coolbreeze]

I am a new to this forum. I am from Mississippi and the absolutely only grape one can grow in my area for wine is the scuppernong.


I have been making scuppernong wine for about 8 years now and have had really good results. I have 22 vines and produce a lot of grapes for my purpose. My wines clear really well with a little help from peptic enzyme and SuperKleer.


The information I am seeking relates to the actual juice from the grape. Heretofore, I have been crushing about 60 pound of grapes and making 5 gallon batches with that amount.Sixty pounds of scupprenong grapes will yield about 3 gallon of actual juice. I have added sugar and water to bring the total to around 6 gallon for the primary fermentation. I usually start with a sg of 1.085 and try to get below 1.000.


My grapes are well into ripening and I am wonderingwhat would happen if I used100% juice from the grape,allowingroom forthe necessary added sugar.I have done a fairly exahaustive search but there is not much anywhere for scuppernong.

 

[Wade E]

I'm definetley not the one to ask as I dont have the money to buy
grapes or the tools to press them and have no grapes growing near me
but would think that you would get a better product out of a
non-watered down version. Welcome to this forum and I'm sure someone
with more knowledge of scupperog wines will chime in soon.

 

[Joseph1]

The Native American grapes most often have a high acid and low sugar content. Most of the instructions for making wine from these grapes include adding water to dilute the acidity and adding sugar to get an acceptable level of alcohol. A wine made with undiluted grape juice may be so tart from the acidity that it is undrinkable.<?amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />

In the past to reduce the effects of dilution I have used calcium carbonate in the must to remove some of the acidity. After this adjustment, water was added to bring the acidity to an appropriate level. To do this you will need test the must for acid levels before and after adjustments. A word of caution is that calcium carbonate has a maximum dosage, exceeding the maximum could result in a chalky taste to the wine.

 

[grapeman]

Well said Joseph. Those were my very thoughts on this subject. If your wine turns out vry well to your liking, why change? I would be afraid the acidity would be overwhelming if you went with pure juice from the Scupps.


By the way coolbreeze, welcome to the forum. Blow on in every once in a while. A lot of folks around the country would like a nice CoolBreeze about now!.

 

[coolbreeze]

Thanks, Wade. I hope I can contribute.

 

[coolbreeze]

Joseph,


There was more that I could have said in my original post, but I did not want to confuse the issue.


First, both my whites and reds have to have an acid blend added to raise the acidity to the level I like which is .70 for the whites. I do not have my log and do not know off head what the number I like for the reds.


I do test my must before the primary fermentation and adjust accordingly.


I think I did read somewhere that 60# of grape for five gallon is the optimum and said it is not good to add more. I could be dreaming that:&gt
I sure would like to find that statement again to confirm, but have not been able to find it so far.


BTY, for those who may read this forumand have scuppernong, Carlos for white, and Noble for reds is the way to go. IMHO, those two are hands down the best.


Thanks for your reply.

 

[Wade E]

Maybe you could d a gallon batch that would take just enough scupps as
that no acid blend was required and not to exceed your .70.

 

[coolbreeze]

Wade,


I think what your are saying is to make a 1 gallon batch and see. I have one 2.5 gal carbol that never seems to get in use. I may experiment with it this year. Only problem is that I will not know the results before next season.


Acid is not a problem and has not been since I started.


I am still hoping I get some comments about using mostly pure juiceinstead of weighing my grapes and adding water and sugar to top off for a six gallon primary.

 

[peterCooper]

Waldo has a number of posts on this site about steam extraction of juice. That may be another way to go and may yield either different or better results.

 

[Joseph1]

Jack Keller’s website has two recipes for Scuppernong (one from 1880 and the other a folk recipe) that use 100% juice. He indicates that he has not tried them and that the procedures would need to be updated.
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There are several wineries that produce wine labeled Scuppernong, some using the Carlos and Nobel varieties. I believe the labeling laws require that if Scuppernong is on the label then 75% of the volume must be from Scuppernong. This would give you a greater juice to water ratio than you are currently using.

I believe that jobe05 has had some experience with Scuppernong and he may be able to provide information.

 

[jobe05]

as I stated in a PM to coolbreeze:



Coolbreeze:

Im humbled that Joseph would give me a
thumbs up on the scuppernong venue, but I am far from the expert. I
have seen your thread on the board, and apologize for not chiming in, I
just haven't had the time to dedicate to a full project on a thread as
of late.

I think your question is a valid one, and I think it
stems from the type of scuppernong (hereinafter called "Grape") that
you use. Last year I did a couple of batches (diluted with water).
One I steamed, and One batch I hand pressed (these are tough to
press). I also got the two varieties from different areas (different
grapes). The batch I hand pressed about 40 pounds of grapes, I got
about 1 1/2 gallons of juice, added water and sugar to 3 gallons,
fermented on the skin and it is AWESOME!! The best I ever made (mind
you "ever made" is a limited in terms of experience on just a few
batches). The other batch I steamed about 60 pounds, of grapes and got
almost 3 gallons of juice. Added water to 6 gallons, and it had
absolutely no flavor at all, NONE! Zippo!!! It has been bulk aging
for a year and still no flavor at all, so I added 5 cans of welches
frozen Raspberry something and it taste like a cheap raspberry Zin now.

But
back to your question: I still think it depends on the type of
scuppernong that you have, growing conditions of the grape and ripeness
when picked as to what type of wine you will end up with, based on your
taste. Everyone on the board seems hung up on acid in scuppernong, but
I, Like yourself, have not had a problem with it. My wife has
complained of heartburn after drinking it, but thats all, not to
mention the tartaric chrystals that build up when stored in the cold.

I
have read some of Jack Keller theories on adding extra fruit and he
always says that more isn't always better. Although I havent tried
this on scuppernong, I have with blackberry and he is right, more is
not better. it makes it very astringent, bitter after taste, tannins
are very heavy. I would say try different varieties in one gallon
batches. Try a couple varieties all juice, 3/4 juice and half juice
and see how they turn out, then possibly blend to see what the
different varieties will be like together.

Unfortunately, I
haven't much experience with different varieties as of yet. It's very
hard to verify what types I am getting at the farmers market, and the
vines I have planted, aren't producing enough for a lot of taste
testing yet, however I even question if the type I buy is the actual
types shipped, otherwise my cowarts would be turning red instead of
bronze..................

You pose an interesting question that
deserves some experimenting, however if like most fruits, more fruit
wont get you a better wine.

John