Please help: Cloudy dark and liquor- like wine issue.

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cmason1957

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So my question now is which is best? Pectin enzyme, superclear, or sulfite? I've had all 3 suggested in this post to seemingly do the same thing. Thanks for all of your help in trying to save my wine. A lot of effort went into harvesting, researching, and mashing grapes etc. I'm hoping to save it! <3
The three things you mention really do much different things.

Pectic Enzyme, breaks down the pectin to help avoid a pectin haze, actually grapes don't produce pectin, but I always add some anyway, just in case that isn't totally true. Can help clear a pectin haze.

SuperKlear (now sold as DualFine) is a true fining agent, contains 2 different fining agents, Keilsol and Chitosan. One works on positively charged particles, the other on negatively charged particles. I think it is the best fining agent there is, since you don't have to think about are these negative or positive.

Sulfite, not a fining agent/clearing agent at all, used to help preserve your wine. It is naturally produced by yeast, you can't make wine with none present.

No clearing will take place as long as fermentation is occurring or while your wine has a significant of CO2 in solution.
 

Copper

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Did the juice become red during the cooking process? If it was red and now it is brown, then it lost color due to low tannin from removal of the skins and seeds etc., or possibly due to oxidation. Most of the time it isn't recommended to heat grapes before fermentation, though heating them can cause a pectin haze, but if heating is done quickly, it shouldn't cause the juice from red grapes to turn brown. When heating grapes, you need to get up to, and pass, 140F fairly quickly, otherwise oxidation due to natural enzymes (which are active below 140F) will happen fast, especially if there were some damaged grapes in the mix. You may need pectic enzyme to help clarify the wine at this point, but that may only solve one part of the problem if oxidation has already occurred. Without enough tannin, there may also be a protein haze that is usually eliminated with bentonite or other recommended fining agent.
The juice was red/ normal looking. Like a grape juice with warm bubbles lol.
 

Copper

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The three things you mention really do much different things.

Pectic Enzyme, breaks down the pectin to help avoid a pectin haze, actually grapes don't produce pectin, but I always add some anyway, just in case that isn't totally true. Can help clear a pectin haze.

SuperKlear (now sold as DualFine) is a true fining agent, contains 2 different fining agents, Keilsol and Chitosan. One works on positively charged particles, the other on negatively charged particles. I think it is the best fining agent there is, since you don't have to think about are these negative or positive.

Sulfite, not a fining agent/clearing agent at all, used to help preserve your wine. It is naturally produced by yeast, you can't make wine with none present.

No clearing will take place as long as fermentation is occurring or while your wine has a significant of CO2 in solution.
Thanks for superkleering that up for me!
 

sour_grapes

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EDITED TO ADD: I hadn't seen Craigs message before I wrote this. Basically, what he said! :D


They don't do the same thing.

It is true that pectic enzyme and superkleer were both suggested for clearing (aka, fining). However, you only need pectic enzyme to attack one particular problem, viz., excess pectin. It was suggested because you said you boiled the grapes, which can lead to a pectin haze.

Superkleer is a general fining agent. It removes a wide range of substances that make your wine cloudy.

Sulfites are for protection against oxidation and microbial spoilage. It won't do anything to clear your wine.

Sooo, you may need all three! You certainly need sulfites to protect the wine. You can use the fining agents to speed up the clearing process, or you could just wait months and see how it goes.
 
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Copper

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Just so everyone knows, the superkleer worked like a charm. My wine went over very well and everyone loved it. Perfect for Christmas! Thank you to those who suggested it as you saved my wine! I just thougth I'd mention that this resolved the issue in case anyone else ever experiences this. I did still have a lot of settlement in the bottom of the original growlers that I fermented in but was successfully separated from the wine. I was able to have almost fully clear bottles (just some minor settlement in the bottom as I don't have any advanced filtration means. They were quite clear and no vinegary smell or anything. I got about 8 bottles out of 3 growlers and on 12/30 there are only 2.5 bottles left! Have a great day.
 

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