New wine maker in need of pointers.

[mikeevans]

I planted a marechal foch grape vine in my garden three years ago in a sunny position and allowed it to grow along the fence. I believe it should be about 4-5 years old now based on its oringinal size.

It didn't produce much in the first few years and I allowed the four strongest runners to grow along the fence cutting back all other branches to 1-2 buds.

This year (2015) it went mad and produced loads of grapes, I harvested and trampled the juice which was enough for 2-3 demijons. I tried to make some wine using the juice alone adding only sugar to top up to approx. 12% alc, the juice would have given approx. 10% (according to the hydrometer) on its own.

After brewing about three weeks (I did not add any yeast instead opting to see if the natural yeast would do the job which it seemed to) I tested (tasted) the wine, good colour but it tasted awful, very sharp and acidic.

A Garden pronged acidity tester said it was about PH3. So I used Potassium bicarbanate to reduce the acidity (now at about 5-7) which worked but has left a salty taste, drinkable but no fine wine any way to remove this?

I am looking for guidance for this year's crop and brew and have a few questions. Bearing in mind the wine is still very young and I'm not sure if it will get any better.

As I left the vine to its own devices this year until it had fruited after which I trimmed back the branches to just after a grape cluster, would that have made poor grapes (more acidity than sugar)?

When making wine should I adjust the acidity if needed or at all before brewing or after. or does tome do the job?

I know most vineyards keep the vines small mine is approx 30 foot long now. How much would this effect the quality of the fruit?

I have been giving the vine a liquid feed of tomato plant food and chicken pellets (dissolved in water) occasionally. Should I be using anything else?

If anyone has any pointers, advice on this or links to good information on vine growing I would be very grateful.

Apologies for so many questions in advance.

Best regards

Mike

 

[GreginND]

First, if your grapes were that low on sugar and the acids high, they were likely not ripe enough. If you are over cropping the fruit, it may not ripen well. I would prune your vines shorter and grow less fruit. How many pounds did you get? A vine should produce about 15 pounds or so. You may bet a little more . . . but if you have a lot over 20 it is over cropped.

How are you testing your pH? What do you mean the acid is 5-7? If that is the pH then it is way too high and the wine will likely spoil.

 

[mikeevans]

Thanks for the reply. I suspected and sounds like it could have been one of two things as you have said.

I think you're right on over cropping. By the quantity I had (almost filled two brew buckets before treading) it could have been partly that. I'm not sure what that would have weighed as so it would probably be easier to work it out in terms of juice (about 11 L).

As for ripening, we had a good year in the S-East of England here and I picked when the majority of the grapes were dark blue/black in early August (some green ones ended up in the juice which may be part of the problem?).
I did taste a couple of grapes first and the juice after extraction which seemed sweet enough so figured that would be fine. However, you suggest that 10% alcohol is not what I could or should be getting from the juice alone.

What percentage would you have expected a pure grape juice to produce?

Bearing in mind I only have a Hydrometer should I (as a home brewer & grower) purchase better equipment for measuring the acidity & sugar content?

For the Acidity I used a garden prong tester (not very accurate) to test the acidity of the wine, basically a two spike prong which measures moisture content and acidity and really meant for the ground. At the time It suited the purpose and was a spare of the moment thing as I had nothing else to use. I did get some litmus papers and use again later while reducing the acidity so I know it is now Ph 6-7. BTW I tasted some last night and it seems to be improving, still in demijons to clarify and test but I'll need to bottle soon.

I am growing new cuttings and have a couple of vines in the ground (equi-spaced along the fence) so in a few years they will take over but this year I will half the length of the vine (planting the cuttings for luck) and see if that helps.

Thanks.

Mike

 

[salcoco]

using the hydrometer the grapes should have a specific gravity of 1.092 to provide at least a 12% ABV. Before picking your grapes , select enough grapes to crush and give you enough liquid to add to your hydrometer jar and measure the sg. if sufficient pick if not continue testing every few days util the correct sg. if sg does not change over a week than pick and add sugar to must to achieve the proper sg.
as far as acid or ph a ph meter or acid test kit is the best. wine should be 6-9% acid or ph of 3.3-3.5.

For your present wine I would do some taste tests using a simple syrup made with two cups of sugar and one cup of water. mix in a blender with hot water. once syrup is clear make about 4 samples at 100ml each. add 1/8 tsp teaspoon of syrup to first sample, two to second and so on. do taste test and select the best one. calculate addition to bulk wine add potassium sorbate and K-meta to prevent return of fermentation and bottle.

 

[JohnT]

I would recommend that you purchase a light refractometer. This is a scope that allows you to field test a grape's brix and is not too expensive. around here they cost about $30 (usd).

Most grapes are ripe at 22 to 25 brix, but this differs from varietal to varietal.

 

[dorfie]

Looking at my variety notes Foch's Brix range is around 15-18 which is a potential ABV of approx 8-10% so your grapes were likely ripe or near ripe.
Foch can have quite high acid levels, as any grape that has riparia in it's background can have.
i would advise that you wait until all of the berries have turned color, and the sugar levels have reached the higher range that is allowed.
it is easier to test acid with a titration kit, or a ph meter that is meant for wine, i am not sure how accurate your ground tester is in a liquid, for all i know it is accurate. i have never compared mine. like salcoco said wine should be around a ph of 3.
i would also advise you to cut the vine shorter like others said. we normally have 2 15" cordons, so a full length of 30". this way the plant can devote more energy to the fruit and increasing the sugar. without knowing more about your site i cant advise on fertilizer or amendments, but normally too much nitrogen is a bad thing for grapes because it causes them to put on a lot of leaves and not as much fruit.

 

[Jack7033]

It is almost time to prune your vines. How many vines do you have? And what is the spacing between vines? I have some Foch at 8 feet spacing and I could have given them more.
Go on Yutube and enter grapevine pruning. You will see a lot of examples to give you guidance. Correct pruning is very important for next year's crop. You will want to leave about 40ish buds per vine.
Letting them ripen to at least 20 Brix (sugar %) is also important as it will also lower the acid as Brix go up.
Go onto More Wine's website and check out their selection of yeasts. Don't take the chance with natural yeasts. Too risky for someone with your experience.
Lastly, is there a home wine making club in your area? There is a wealth of knowledge in the members of these clubs.


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[mikeevans]

Thanks for all the help and pointers. I think I'll do as you have all suggested and trim the vine back, get a acidity & brix tester then use real yeast this year (i have some dried red yeast saved from a kit I had but re-used the yeast from another batch).I'm afraid you'll have to wait a while for feedback on the results

I only have one matured vine then a 1 y/o vine about 2-3 meters from that one in the garden with another two 1y/o vines elsewhere at about a 2-3m spacing (I'm of limited space in the garden). My soil is topsoil & Clay on chalk, mostly topsoil 1 - 2m deep then chalk which I hear is good for grapes (not the Clay) All vines are South-west facing so they get the sun almost from rise to set.

I understand on the High Nitrogen my chillies went the same this year so I will look to a different fertilizer.

Regards

Mike

 

[DoctorCAD]

Now you know why we use wine yeast and kill off the natural yeasts. Unless you live in a wine making area and the wine yeasts have become the dominate natural yeasts.

Regardless of what you do to your grapes, and to me it sounds like they simply were not ready to pick, use a known strain of wine yeast next time.