New Barrel Questions

[Cjk]

Hello Everyone,

I'm new to wine making, but love it already. Thank you all for this great forum. I have already learned a great deal from all of you with this wonderful forum. My beautiful wife will be getting me a 23l Vadai barrel for Fathers Day this year.

I have two WE Eclipse Kits clearing now (Barolo and Pinot Noir).
I am also planning on starting a CC Red Mountain Cab within the next few weeks

My plan is to break in the new barrel with the Barolo (I have not added the oak cubes) for 4 weeks +/-
Next will be the Red Mountain Cab for 8 weeks +/-
I was thinking of maybe putting the Pinot Noir in the barrel for a short period of time. (Not sure if that's smart with a new barrel)

My first question: do you think I should put the Pinot Noir in the barrel? If so how long? I do like oak flavor in my wine, but have read that it's easy to over oak a Pinot Noir. This would only be the third wine in the barrel so I'm concerned it may take on too much oak quickly.

If it's not a good idea to Oak the Pinot: Is 8 weeks after first coming out of the barrel a reasonable amount of time to wait to consider putting the Barolo back in for a longer time? I've read from some of you that the Oak falls off and you can rack back in the barrel for longer.

Last question: When you top off the barrel what are you using to store your top off wine. Splits? Do I need anything smaller?

Thank you Everyone,

Chris

 

[Boatboy24]

You're gonna love having a barrel! And that wife of yours is a keeper for getting you one.

I did a similar thing with my second barrel. I had used it for 12 weeks, when I put a Pinot Noir in it for 8 weeks. 18 months later, I taste almost no oak whatsoever. Taste it weekly to see how it's going, just to be safe.

Regarding topping off: I top off with commercial wine or wine I've made that is similar. Either way, I open a bottle, top off, then drink the rest. Sometimes I'll keep splits around and use those, but you don't have to go crazy. In the winter, I lose about 375ml every 2-3 weeks. In summer, it is a little slower. It all depends on your ambient temps and relative humidity.

 

[Cjk]

Thanks Jim,

Yeah I'm going to keep her. Lol!

How long did you bulk age your Pinot after it came out of the Barrel? Or do you bottle it right away?

Chris

 

[sdelli]

I would put the Barolo in for 4 or 5 weeks... The Cab in for 8 to 10 weeks... Cab can take a lot of wood no problem... By then your barrel is almost 4 months old... Then Pinot for 6 weeks. By then you hopefully made a Merlot or a Zin that can go in the barrel for 4 more months. lol Kit wine is best bulk aged for at least 8 to 10 months before bottle. Longer if you can handle it. My pressed grapes do not see a bottle before a year and a half. Then as long as I can stay away to let it age.

 

[Boatboy24]

Thanks Jim,

Yeah I'm going to keep her. Lol!

How long did you bulk age your Pinot after it came out of the Barrel? Or do you bottle it right away?

Chris

I just bottled it last month. Started it in July of 2013. Oak aside, it hasn't come around the way (or at the speed) I'd hoped.

 

[Cjk]

Thanks sdelli,

Im hoping for a Zin by then too. I appreciate your advice. Thanks for taking the time!

Cheers!

Chris

 

[Cjk]

Jim was your pinot a kit or from grapes?

Chris

 

[Cjk]

Jim not only is she getting me the barrel, she's giving me this picture she took at Newport Vineyards a while back. I'm putting it on the wall in my "Psuedo Cellar" for inspiration. It's good to have a wife who's a photographer!

Chris

 

[sdelli]

Nice picture!

 

[Cjk]

Thank you!!!

 

[Boatboy24]

Jim was your pinot a kit or from grapes?

Chris

En Primeur NZ Pinot Noir. No longer made. The En Primeur PN is now Chilean.

 

[JohnT]

I think that your wife and my wife should hang out together. Perhaps some or that will "rub off" on my wife !!!

As far as the pinot, using it as a third batch is the smart thing to do. I would taste it after 2 weeks and then decided if you need more oak. Also, what do you plan to do with the barrel after your third batch?

 

[Cjk]

It's only a matter of time before my luck runs out John. Lol.

I'm thinking by then I will have another Kit ready to go. I've been thinking of starting a Zin or Cab/merlot. Whatever it is should be able to stay in the barrel for 12-16 weeks?

My only concern is starting a kit in the late summer so it will be ready for the barrel. This being my first year doing this I'm not sure if the temps will be too high where I live to start a kit. I may have to start 2 more now. Lol Or put my Barolo back in the barrel depending on how it tastes.

Chris

 

[JohnT]

A very good plan....

I would do 2 new batches now and bulk age until the barrel frees up.

 

[Boatboy24]

Yep, what John said. I think roughly 3 months is a good amount of time for kits in the barrel.

 

[Cjk]

Thank you Gentlemen

 

[Kiwisholland]

Great advice, thanks. I have a WE Eclipse Zin that is 6 months bulk aging in carboy, and an Eclipse Shiraz at 3 months. Both are in 5 gallon carboys after racking with a couple corked bottles on the side. I want to get a Vidai Hungarian 20 liter.

I can still taste the kit taste, and was hoping barrel aging would eleviate that some.

I have added French or Hungarian spirals to both carboys.

How long can I hope to keep the Zin in the barrel if it's my first rack, then How long for the Shiraz as my second rack? Can I then rack the Zin back if I don't have a new kit ready? I know it's subjective and taste based....

Want to do a Nebbiolo or Pinot kit next.....

I really want to get a barrel, but afraid of over oaking the kits, and not having something else to put in next?

My main hope is to kill the kit taste. Am I wrong?

I do like oak, except TOO much in Pinot

Thanks in advance

 

[Boatboy24]

In my experience, the barrel helps get rid of the kit taste, but it only speeds up the process a bit, not eliminate it entirely. Only age will get rid of it.

As far as schedule, I aim to go about 4 weeks on the first wine, then 6-8 on the 2nd, 10-ish on the third. By the 4th (and sometimes the 3rd), you should be able to go 3 months. I wouldn't buy a barrel unless I had two kits cleared and ready. Three would be preferable though. You just don't know how you're going to like the oak. 'Bigger' reds are better to put through first and can handle the oak better.

If you're interested in an oaked chardonnay, you can ferment in a new barrel and that helps extend your schedule a bit.

 

[sdelli]

I know it is more work but the problem with a new small barrel is the first few get Oak but do not get a chance to take advantage of micro oxidation... Put the first one in for 2 weeks... Second one in for 3 weeks... Third one in for 4 weeks.. Then cycle back and put the first one back in for 6 weeks... Second one for 8 weeks... Third for 12 weeks