Need some knowledge on winemaking

[doomsmith]

Hi folks,

I'm new to making wine, though I've been making beer and mead for some time now. While books are on the way (reading one right now), I do have a couple of wine questions. If any of y'all can help me out, I'd be obliged.

1. I've always preferred old world style wines to the new world, fruit forward style. This isn't a snob thing, I've had a few California wines done in the old world style which are absolutely amazing, and a few new world style wines from Europe which were, well, fruit forward. I would like to vint (is that a verb) an old world style wine. Can anyone explain the differences in process to me? I like the tannins, and the silky smooth flavours of old world wines, because mostly that is what I was raised with. How can I replicate this? I heard something about leaving some stems in the process (the brown stems, not that green ones). What else? Maybe fermentation temperatures? I understand old world wines were fermented warmer than is now popular over here.

2. What are options for killing the wild yeast prior to adding in the good yeast? Campden tables or sulfite crystals? What is the difference?

Obliged! I found me a farmer who grows wine grapes for a living, and he's promised me around 80 pounds for my 6 gallons of wine. I am still not decided on the varietal, as I'm waiting closer to harvest time to see what is good.

Cheers,

 

[jgmann67]

I'm a relatively new wine maker. But, here are a couple thoughts:

1. The old world style of winemaking (to me) is a generational thing. I drink the wine my parents made and I make wine for my children to drink... lots of aging, higher tannin. New world is more of an instant gratification experience... quick drinkers, less aging, less tannin. So, you'll want to experiment with tannins and oaks till you find a blend that you like. I don't know that I'd want more stems for fear of the wine going bitter on me. But, higher temps and longer periods of time on the skins will get you deeper color, more body and tannin, too.

2. Potassium Metabisulfate (Kmeta) is your friend. Same same...

For 6 gallons of wine, you'll want to secure another 25 lbs of grapes, just to be sure.

Enjoy!

 

[balatonwine]

I am a new world kid, now having a winery in the old world, making new world wines.

To better understand the differences, the terms "old" and "new" are better replaced with the terms "reductive" versus "oxidative" wine making. Ideally, research those two terms and you will find a large wealth of information beyond what forum post can provide.

But in simplistic brief: Reductive wine making seeks the fruit, so reduces oxygen exposure and is often done in non-porous tanks such as stainless steel. Racking frequently to get the wine off the lees. Oxidative wine making occurs more in semi-permeable containers like oak (sometimes right from the start at the primary). And then later, keeping the wine on the lees (more autolysis) and longer in oak aging to give that "creamy" mouth feel.

Regarding stems, look up whole-cluster fermentation. It is more common in Europe, wherein the USA it has become more common to strip off all the stems. But more US wineries are now using this technique. I personally say it is neither an "old" or "new" world thing per se. Just a wine making style decision. But stripping of stems will tend to make a more "fruity" wine as the herbaceous components of the stems are not included.

 

[user 36973]

I make old-world style wines using French-American hybrid grapes. Go figure that!

To retain more fruit-forward character in red wine, you would press the grapes earlier (less skin contact), perform only partial MLF, and oak the wines with oak adjuncts in stainless tanks. This is the reductive process described by balatonwine above. This method is cheap, easy and novice wine drinkers love the fruity, lightly sweet wine it produces such as Yellow Tail.

An old-world style wine would have a longer maceration during fermentation and full MLF while aging in barrels. French & Hungarian oak are tighter grain and lead to more micro-oxidation of the wine as it ages.

I would be cautious about stems since they can impart bitter tannins. Whole cluster fermentation and (taken to the extreme) carbonic maceration will offer a more pronounced fruit flavor. There are some very nice Beaujolais wines made that way.

Regardless of the wine style you make, be sure to adhere to good wine-making practices and use the proper amount of sulfites and the proper times. Campden tablets are simply pre-measured amounts of sulfites that you crush up. Otherwise, get a digital scale and some potassium metabisulfite powder. No difference in effect.

 

[balatonwine]

I make old-world style wines using French-American hybrid grapes. Go figure that!

The kaleidescope of possibilities is what makes wine making such a fine and splendid thing.