Necessary?

[lipsh*tz]

I have two carboys of cabernet sauvignon--one being 23L of pasturized must and other a 7L concentration kit. Both are at the secondary fermentation stage.
Is it necessary to add keiselsol and chitosan to my wine? Will it not clear on its own if left to bulk age like fresh must?




Once fermentation is finished I don't want to take the airlock off and expose it to air.


If I have to use the above additives can I add them when I want after fermentation is complete (say a month or two for example) or do I need to be true to the directions.

 

[scotty]

i use the quickie method butusing age to clear is whar the real serious bunch do.
One of the others will give you more info on the time frame.

 

[masta]

You do not have to use a fining agent as your wine will clear on it's own with enough time. You should degas the wine properly to allow this to happen and it would be best to add the k-meta and k-sorbate when degassing for the added protection.


Note: Any deviation from the instructions could void the warranty but many of us accept and take the risk to make modifications.

 

[lipsh*tz]

I've already deviated from the instructions from day one! I'll decide soon enough if I'm going to use those additives. I don't plan on drinking it for at least 3 months.
Another thing is the use of k-meta. I understand the chemistry and benefits of its use. However, my dad has never used k-meta for his wine and not one bottle has ever spoiled on him. Even the wine from 20 years ago (yes 20 years!). So why would it be absolutely necessary? Same with k-sorbate? How can fermentation start up again if all the sugar has been converted to alcohol? Also, what's the rush to degas the wine? Carbon dioxide inside the wine would be a benefit for long term storage (as long as the original seal is not broken). Living organisims cannot live in an anoxic environment. I'd better stop now. I can go on forever.
I know most people here would disagree with some of my methods. however I don't see the logic behind some of the instructions.

 

[masta]

You can make your wine in any fashion you like but the instructions and additives are included in kits to produce a consistentand quality product with awarranty.
The k-sorbate is included in kit wines (dry to sweet) for added protection and this quote from Tim Vandergrift Technical Services Manager, Winexpert Ltd. should explain why:

<DIV ="postcolor">
<DIV ="postcolor">
<DIV ="postcolor">"Okay, having identified that you simply have a general sense of 'what's it there for', I'll let you in on the real truth behind sorbate.

We include it in the kit to prevent the growth of certain classes of bacteria and moulds. It also suppresses many different indigenous yeast strains. As a manufacturer, we're faced with the reality that many of the people who use our kits, especially for the first time, may not understand the importance of stringent sanitation protocols. We have twenty to forty cases a week where people fail to add yeast, so in order to obviate product failures due to the introduction of spoilage organisms in the user's hands, we specify the use of sorbate, and include it in the kit.

Sorbate is harmless, odourless, tasteless, and indetectable in the amounts we include in the kit. No one has the capacity to detect a couple of grams of sorbate dissolved in 23 litres of wine, and it has no effect on human health (well, almost none: it's used in treating certain types of gatritis caused by foreign bacteria in the gut).

This is from a monograph from one of our suppliers:


<DIV ="quotetop">QUOTE
<DIV ="quotemain">Potassium sorbate can restrain effectively the activity of mould, yeast and aerophile bacteria. Restrain growth and reproduction of the pernicious micro oraganism as pseudomonas, staphylococcus salmonella action to restrain growth is more powerful than killing. Meanwhile, it can not restrain useful microoraganim growth as Anaerobic spore-bearing bacilli, acidophil therefore to lengthen food store period and remain food original flavor. The preservative efficiency of sorbic acid (potassium sorbate) is 5-10 times sodium benzoate.

When dissolved in water, potassium sorbate ionizes to form sorbic acid which is effective against yeasts, molds, and select bacteria, and is widely used at 250 ppm to 1000 ppm levels in cheeses, dips, yogurt, sour cream, bread, cakes, pies and fillings, baking mixes, doughs, icings, fudges, toppings, beverages, margarine, salads, fermented and acidified vegetables, olives, fruit products, dressings, smoked and salted fish, confections and mayonnaise.

Sorbic Acid (also called chemically 2,4-Hexadienoic acid ), a white crystalline powder or granule form for dust free, is an unsaturated fatty acid which has two double bonds in conjugation that is, two double bonds separated only by one single bond. It and its salts (potassium sorbate, calcium sorbate ; its salts are used according to differences in solubility.) are used as preservatives in wide range of food products as well as in their packaging materials, since they are characterized by their broad effectiveness to inhibit molds, yeast, and many bacteria growth in food. Potassium sorbate, white to slightly yellow crystalline powder, is the potassium salt of sorbic acid and is much more soluble in water than the acid. Potassium sorbate will releases back sorbic acid if dissolved in water. It is effective up to pH 6.5 but effectiveness increases as the pH decreases. The lower the pH value of the product the lower amount of Sorbic Acid or Potassium Sorbate is needed for preservation. Its industrial applications include use in coating industry to improve gloss and in rubber industry.

Potassium sorbate is used as a a mold, bacterial and yeast inhibitor and as a fungistatic agent in foods. It is also used in cosmetics, pharmaceutical, tobacco and flavoring products. In wines, it is to prevent the secondary fermentation of residual sugar. It is used in coating to improve gloss. It is used as an intermediate to manufacture plasticizers and lubricants.. It is used as an additive in rubber industry to improve milling characteristics.

Chemical Formula: CH3CH:CHCH:CHCOOK
<DIV ="postcolor">

So, bottom line: yes, you can leave it out.

But again, why? I leave it out because I can use sanitation methods that civilians cannot access, and have a lab that I can do cultures in, and I can never remember to go get some when I bottle, one or three years after starting the kit. I'm not sure how leaving the product out would benefit you, but if you choose to do so, be sure to monitor the quality of the wine over time, to make sure it's still microbiologically stable.Edited by: masta

 

[Tomy]

Monitoring wine is pretty darn easy, its eather good or bad. Alcohol, tannens and acid in of themselves are very good at fighting off micro- organisms, so if you do not intend to age a wine with chemicals assuring the stopped growth of any thing that could make a wine go bad, then don't use them. Many times at a wine sale you will see a wine sold for hunderds of dollars that is 40 years old or older. Do you really think this wine was treated with chemicals. Were talking shelf life, go in your grocery store and just try to find some food product that hasen't been treated with chemicals to add to shelf life.We really don't know the long term affect of these chemicals that are put in our food or water, and do you really think the FDA is going to tell the truth.Tomy