My Stir Degassing is a Waste of Time!

[bkisel]

Well I'm on my fourth kit (MM 23 all grape) and once again even with one of those drill stirrers very little CO2 seems to get released. This is in a carboy just before stabilization and clearing. I know I'm wasting my time because after I top off and hit it with a hand vacuum pump. Man, every stroke on that little wine bottle hand pump pulls up a thousand or more bubbles - no exaggeration at least for the first 2-3 days of pumping. I pump thousands of times over the course of a bunch of days before it gets hard to pump and the bubbles stop (or nearly so).

BTW, with this kit I used the sheet racking technique but it doesn't seem to have made any noticeable difference. Also, used a lot of pulsing and reversing with the drill. Thinking now that with my next kit I'll rack from the "secondary" carboy fermentor into a bucket and try degassing there.

 

[cpfan]

bkisel:

Personally I find that stirring back-and-forth with a paddle is more effective than round-and-round with a paddle or drill stirrer. I actually do both. I use the drill stirrer to mix the additives into the wine, then the paddle back-and-forth to degas.

Steve

 

[Boatboy24]

What temp is your wine when you are degassing?

 

[Reilly]

bkisel:

If this is something you plan on sticking with and don't have the $200+ for an all in one, check out ebay for medical pumps (aka aspirators). They are cheaper and for about $100 you can get set up. Makes degassing and xfers easy.

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f3/de-gasser-27205/

 

[bkisel]

What temp is your wine when you are degassing?

Right now my basement is between 73-74 degrees. With that little pump the bubbles are coming out of solution like gang busters.

 

[Loner]

Do you think it could still be fermenting ?

 

[bkisel]

bkisel:

Personally I find that stirring back-and-forth with a paddle is more effective than round-and-round with a paddle or drill stirrer. I actually do both. I use the drill stirrer to mix the additives into the wine, then the paddle back-and-forth to degas.

Steve

I also tried some of that back and forth with my two sided paddle mixer. It did seem to bring up a little more gas than the drill stirring but still nothing like what I'm getting with the the hand pump. I'm thinking that technique could work when I try degassing in a bucket and can use the big slotted paddle end.

 

[Reilly]

If you can get you hand pump to hold 22-24 hg the gas will get off pretty quick. It may take a few days but it is more effective than the spoon or paddle.

 

[bkisel]

Do you think it could still be fermenting ?

I checked and hit the .996 that the kit said to look for (or less) and checked it again this morning and so went to the degassing/stabilizing/clearing phase.

It is interesting that this MM kit didn't have me putting in the Potassium Sorbate in this phase. They want me to put in the sorbate before bottling which they say in 10 days or so - when the wine has cleared.

My plan is to rack to a clean carboy and bulk age for 3 months once the wine clears in about 10 days or so.

 

[bkisel]

If you can get you hand pump to hold 22-24 hg the gas will get off pretty quick. It may take a few days but it is more effective than the spoon or paddle.

This is one of those wine bottle hand pumps not a brake bleeder. This is my third time around doing this with a kit and as you say it takes a few days. Well for me a few days to get it mostly degassed and then a few more to where it gets hard to pump and only getting a few bubbles.

 

[cimbaliw]

I'm with Loner. I'd sit on it for a couple of days at current temp then recheck SG. If that's not it you may be degassing too aggressively and adding oxygen.

BC

 

[bkisel]

bkisel:

If this is something you plan on sticking with and don't have the $200+ for an all in one, check out ebay for medical pumps (aka aspirators). They are cheaper and for about $100 you can get set up. Makes degassing and xfers easy.

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f3/de-gasser-27205/

The all-in-one seems like the way to go. The plan is to stick with this hobby but I'd, at this point, rather spend that amount of money on another two kits to help build up a stock. Besides, once I got an all-in-one I'd have nothing left to ***** about.

Edit: Oops, didn't think that the word that rhymes with witch would be considered a no-no.

 

[bkisel]

I'm with Loner. I'd sit on it for a couple of days at current temp then recheck SG. If that's not it you may be degassing too aggressively and adding oxygen.

BC

When I hit the SG that the kit has me check for and then degass and put that stuff in isn't that stopping what little fermentation might be left?

The pump creates a vacuum in the carboy head space and that vacuum gets filled with CO2, right? How would oxygen get in?

Thanks...

 

[BernardSmith]

I think Cimbaliw's point about adding oxygen is in reference to stirring or whipping the wine and not to your use of a vacuum to degas. If you whip too vigorously you create a vortex and that vortex can suck air into the wine.
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[jswordy]

Whatever floats yer boat but I just wanted to comment that all I do is stir degas, drill degas and/or sheet rack degas. All work fine for me. Your must might be too cool, or there is another problem. Maybe you are in more of a hurry than me.

I'd also like to dispel this notion that every single conceivable bubble of CO2 absolutely must get out of the wine. It is wrongheaded, and I see it here a lot. Watch what happens at the top of the wine with the next few commercial bottles you open, immediately following the cork coming out.

 

[cimbaliw]

You might be adding oxygen by stirring too aggressively with the drill tool. Vacuum pumps of any type would not add O2. Well, when used correctly anyway.

As far as the hydrometer; it took me some time to figure out that, at least with mine, fermentation usually isn't done until I see 0.900. There are temp corrections to be made but I think that's just the way mine is built. Kit instructions are shortest case scenarios. There's no harm in extending out what they refer to as secondary fermentation for a few extra days to make sure the SG readings have hit bottom. Let the kit come to you.

 

[bkisel]

I'll know more over the next few days. If it doesn't start to clear and continues to have a lot of CO2 then I guess it is still fermenting. If that happens then I'll need to start another thread to ask how to handle the situation. [i.e. How far below .996 can the SG go and how long to get there and then what do I do, etc.]

Thanks guys...

 

[Abrnth3]

I believe if you get a couple of stoppers with two holes in them and rig up an air tight line set you could vacuum rack your wine using that little hand pump. this will release more co2 and less work. Then later down the road you may be able to afford a better pump. good luck