Malbec Must, Yee Ha! Any issues?

[Busabill]

Hey folks, so I just got a 5 gallon bucket of Malbec Must from WGD. Yee ha!!! The measurements are SG 1.116 with a PH of 3.69 and TA of .52. I know that's a little low for TA and a little high for PH. I'm thinking of adding 6 tsp of TA which should get it to around .76 TA after studying the more wine guide. this will also bring down the PH into more of a stable range. Does this sound about right to everyone? Do you think that's adding too much TA?

Thanks and cheers!

 

[sdelli]

I believe you mean Tartaric Acid? Yes... That is too much! I would add no more then 20-30 grams

 

[Busabill]

I believe you mean Tartaric Acid? Yes... That is too much! I would add no more then 20-30 grams

OK sdelli, it sounded like a bit much to me as well. So in the end I added 5tsp, which in the end is about 25 g. Hopefully everything will come out good!

 

[JohnT]

Ditto on it being too much. a good TA for reds is .6 to .70. I usually shoot for the low end of that (.60). and do an additional adjustment to suit my tastes.

You really should add by weight, but in general a level teaspoon of tartaric acid will raise the TA by (.15). So for your 5 gallons, I would only add 2.5 level teaspoons to arrive very close to .60.

 

[Wild Duk]

I'm about 7 days into my fermentation of Malbec grapes from WGD. I added about 40g of tartaric but I also added some water to bring down the brix a tad. I didn't measure TA but after addition, PH was 3.4

 

[Busabill]

I am on day 3 and bubbling away. 40 grams? That also seems like a lot I added 5 level teaspoons which is about 25 grams I believe. What ending tartaric acid number were you looking for? Just curious. I did not add any water though. And yes the briix was a little high I just went for it. Cheers!

 

[ColemanM]

I added 40 grams, but I had 2 buckets. 20g each with about 3 liters total water. It ended up at 1.106 and fermented to .994 last I checked. Undergoing mlf as we speak so not sulfited. Hopefully will hit .990. Used bm45 tastes amazing. Just pressed the petite sirah the other day. Another soon to be amazing wine!!

 

[Busabill]

Ah two buckets that makes sense! Curious about two things as I am still learning. What kind of pH meter do you use? I tried using the strips and I could not seem to get an accurate reading with them. Also what kind of water have you added? Regular tap water? And was a petite Syrah also frozen must from WGD?

 

[ErikM]

"WGD"?
Did you get them shipped, and if so, mind sharing the shipping cost?

 

[ColemanM]

Yup WineGrapesDirect. Com $30 per pail shipping. Unfortunately the cost of doing business if you live in Minnesota. I have not tested the numbers yet. I went with what they stated the numbers were and an email response from Michael stating the reason he sent 20g with the pail. Unbelievable customer service! I plan on checking the numbers, unfortunately I have to wait till after mlf because I hear it could throw the members off IIRC. Both taste amazing and I have decided to save the money I would spend on kits and buy more frozen grapes. I have a Hanna Ph meter by the way. one's a kit and the other isn't. Guess which is which. [emoji16]

 

[ColemanM]

I use bottled water for winemaking. Not distilled though.

 

[Busabill]

Thanks and yes they have great customer service Michael will take care of you. I'm lucky that I live in Sacramento California and was able to pick them up myself from us cold storage where they store then. But still outstanding customer service! And judging by how my Malbec looks the right is the kit.

 

[Busabill]

Oh ok bottled. Not acidulated? I have not had to add water yet but I may need to as I watch the malbec closely.

 

[ColemanM]

Technically I added the acid to the water, in turn acidulating it. The volume of the water plus the anticipated yield of must dictates the amount of acid. Yup. The one on the right is a kit. The left is the petite sirah.

 

[JohnT]

Coleman,

I like that method also. My thinking is that adding the acid to the measured water, then adding the water to the must should be less stressful to the yeast than adding concentrated acid directly to the must.

 

[heatherd]

"WGD"?
Did you get them shipped, and if so, mind sharing the shipping cost?

Another place is M&M (juicegrape.com) and they have frozen juice and frozen must (crushed grapes) all year long.

The frozen must from M&M or WGD are perfect for people who want to work with grapes out of season, don't want to mess with crushing, or don't have access to anything local to them geographically. Plus they give you a 6 gallon must every time, so it is entirely predictable and reliable.

For a red you would get a frozen pail of must; you could possibly reduce your cost by doing a double batch of red with (1) frozen must and (1) frozen juice. The toro negro cab sauv frozen grapes are $119.00. Their frozen cab sauv juice is $75.00. So you could do a 12 gallon batch for $194.00 + tax + shipping. That is pretty cost-effective. I would conferment and mix the juice and grapes together.

I did a batch similarly where I used (1) frozen must from M&M and (1) fresh juice pail from Chile. That worked out to be $119 + tax + shipping and $60 for the fresh pail (no shipping from Harford Vineyard). I cofermented the grapes and juice. The wine is really getting good now! A double batch is also a great way to beef up your back stock in your cellar.

So if you wanted to do a white you could just get a frozen pail of juice. Those are $75 to $150 + tax + shipping. It's an easy jump from a kit for someone who wants to make a white. Especially if you want to do a Chardonnay and take it through MLF, that can only be done with juice.

Anyone who makes this jump would need to have on hand the chemicals that are used in kits (yeast, kmeta, oak, sorbate only if back-sweetening), plus pectic enzyme, tartaric acid, clarifiers, tannins, and MLF culture. Testing supplies are also needed for at least pH and MLF, whether in the form of strips or a meter.

I know folks think that making wine from grapes is a more expensive route but I find the opposite to be true, especially when using fresh grapes and juice, and more so when using juice pail + lug of grapes for reds. I can make a batch of fresh white pail for $60 and a batch of fresh red for $115 with a pail + lug of grapes; that's two batches for the price of one high-end kit. Nothing beats the control I have over the process.

All-grape winemaking can be more expensive but it depends on the cost of your grapes. If you grow them or get a good deal, it could be super cheap. Plus there are wine kits that are $200+ for 6 gallons. When you get to that point, all-grape starts to look affordable. Cheap isn't the only measurement, anyway. The point is to make something enjoyable and that you are proud of.

I provide the costs just so that folks have a basis for making their own decisions - rather than an assumption that kits are the most affordable way to make grape wine. I find that not to be true.

They are certainly convenient and a good way to learn the process with controlled variables, and I still use them. But I am making the very most of fall and spring harvest, and just doing a few kits in the off season, now that I have access to fresh grapes and juice.

Best of luck!
Heather

 

[Busabill]

Very nice write-up Heather. Where are you located if I might ask? I too find out that wine from grapes can be very inexpensive. This harvest I got 100 pounds of Cabernet for $50, and 100 pounds of Zinfandel for $50, that's a really good value! But I do like the frozen must from WGD, and the Malbec I'm doing from there is coming along nicely. I would like to find a juice bucket quickly to add to the malbec skins once I press them, I think this would be a great value as well! Any recommendations on which juice bucket may be nice with the Malbec skins? As I've never combined skins and just like this. you mentioned Hartford vineyard. Where is that? I'm in Northern California. Have a nice Sunday! And cheers!

 

[ColemanM]

A blend I often see is a Malbec Syrah (Australian) or cab. Malbec (French/Californian). I made a juice bucket from Luva Bella three years ago from Midwest supplies. They were pre balanced and yeast was already in there. All three varieties, cab, merlot and Syrah tasted exactly the same and in my opinion, were worse than kits. I've never tried Chilean or any juice bucket since. I'm also getting the run around from M&M for the 4 frozen musts I ordered on 9-2 so I'm kinda salty with them. I would really like to know your view, heather, on the juice buckets you get. Pre balanced or not? Quality or not. I've made my last kit ever with my pressed petite sirah skins from WGD (LE super Tuscan from WE) due to the fact I can't stand kit taste (Luva Bella had it). I love the idea of stretching the skins but gave reservations. Please help. Sorry for the long winded write up. Between the fire, cigar, drinks and two kids wanting to toss cardboard in the fire, this has taken 20 minutes to write. Umm what was my point again? [emoji12]

 

[heatherd]

Very nice write-up Heather. Where are you located if I might ask? I too find out that wine from grapes can be very inexpensive. This harvest I got 100 pounds of Cabernet for $50, and 100 pounds of Zinfandel for $50, that's a really good value! But I do like the frozen must from WGD, and the Malbec I'm doing from there is coming along nicely. I would like to find a juice bucket quickly to add to the malbec skins once I press them, I think this would be a great value as well! Any recommendations on which juice bucket may be nice with the Malbec skins? As I've never combined skins and just like this. you mentioned Hartford vineyard. Where is that? I'm in Northern California. Have a nice Sunday! And cheers!

I am in Maryland. Harford Vineyard is north of Baltimore.

Sounds like you got a good deal on your grapes!

Maybe a cab sauv bucket?

 

[heatherd]

A blend I often see is a Malbec Syrah (Australian) or cab. Malbec (French/Californian). I made a juice bucket from Luva Bella three years ago from Midwest supplies. They were pre balanced and yeast was already in there. All three varieties, cab, merlot and Syrah tasted exactly the same and in my opinion, were worse than kits. I've never tried Chilean or any juice bucket since. I'm also getting the run around from M&M for the 4 frozen musts I ordered on 9-2 so I'm kinda salty with them. I would really like to know your view, heather, on the juice buckets you get. Pre balanced or not? Quality or not. I've made my last kit ever with my pressed petite sirah skins from WGD (LE super Tuscan from WE) due to the fact I can't stand kit taste (Luva Bella had it). I love the idea of stretching the skins but gave reservations. Please help. Sorry for the long winded write up. Between the fire, cigar, drinks and two kids wanting to toss cardboard in the fire, this has taken 20 minutes to write. Umm what was my point again? [emoji12] View attachment 25598

The buckets I get from Harford are not pre-balanced, are not inoculated, and seem to be high-quality. I have purchased Chilean, Italian, Californian, and Maryland grapes and juice from them. I have been entirely satisfied, and count myself lucky to be within a reasonable drive to their vineyard.

I had a good experience with M&M as well, but only used them once. I suspect they will come through for you in the end. I really liked the quality of wine from their must. Those are not balanced or inoculated, to my knowledge. Given that you're in Minnesota, these guys and WGD may be your best source for grapes and juice.

Never bought from Luva Bella because they aren't close to me geographically. That is strange that it was low quality.