Making wine from 2018 Petite Sirah.

[Bill McNab]

Hello,
New to the forum. My name is Bill McNab , been making wine for 35 years.
This year making Petite Sirah from CA grapes. First time for Petite Sirah.
AF went well , MF under way in 1 carboy and 3 carboys not yet started MF although all were treated exactly the same.
The one carboy that has started MF is approx 50% complete. At completion I am planning to rack a carboy onto the lees of the successful MF carboy.
I inoculated with CH16 5 weeks ago ( Oct 7th ) at approx 5 brix after pressing.
Also added MF nutrient.
Has anyone had a similar experience.?
Best Regards.
Bill.

 

[jgmann67]

Hi Bill.

I’ve only been making wine a few years now. But, last year’s Cab has given me MLF fits. Four tries, no progress. Finally had to rack and dose it with Kmeta. My 2017 PV went through MLF with no problem, and the 2017 Merlot only kinda sputtered through part of an MLF.

I should have been more picky about my yeast. I used BM4X4, which has a reputation for making a consecutive AF then MLF difficult.

This year, I did an OVZ and did a coinoculation. 10 days and it was all done. Like magic.

I’ll be doing coinoculation from now on.

I think your plan to rack the sludge from the completed wine to one of the others is a good idea. Did something similar a couple years ago with a PS. Worked great.

 

[Bill McNab]

Hi jgmann67
I used BM4x4 also. Did not know about that reputation.
The things you learn when you chat with others.
I had problems with Merlot last year, then come to find out Merlot can be fussy about MLF completion. After testing I realized that maybe it was 30 to 50%
Thanks for replying.
Bill.

 

[jgmann67]

Hi jgmann67
I used BM4x4 also. Did not know about that reputation.
The things you learn when you chat with others.
I had problems with Merlot last year, then come to find out Merlot can be fussy about MLF completion. After testing I realized that maybe it was 30 to 50%
Thanks for replying.
Bill.

That’s why I like this forum so much. Meet, share, learn. All good.

BM4x4 supposedly binds SO2 like crazy and inhibits MLF.

https://scottlab.com/bm-4x4-yeast-bm4x4

I used AMH for my Zin thinking I could do a slow burn fermentation. But, it took off like a rocket and completed AF in 9 days.

- Jim

 

[Boatboy24]

Hi Bill, and welcome.

Any difference in your carboys? Free run vs Press Run? Heavier vs lighter sediment? Maybe different nutrient protocols? I agree with Jim in that the sludge idea is a good one. Are you stirring at all?

 

[Bill McNab]

Hello,
Thanks for your thoughts.
All my carboys are 23L. All are free run with a little sludge purposely added.
All nutrients AF and ML are consistently equal. Equaly amounts of CH16 MAlo culture.
Visually I can see that the carboy which is underway has a little more sediment, maybe thats the trick..
I stir every week. As soon as that carboy has finished I will seed the other 3 with sediment and hopefully a few million little bacteria cells.
Any and all questions are welcome. I will u pdate as we go.
Thanks again.

 

[NorCal]

I made a Petite Sirah this year from CA grapes (actually grapes were within 100 yards of my house). My mlf went really quick, completing in 6 weeks on CH16. I used the lees from the PS to mlf innoculate Petit Verdot and it went gang busters. Something I’ll do again in the future.

 

[Johnd]

@Bill McNab , are you testing to confirm MLF in one carboy, but not the other three, or is this based on observation of visible signs of MLF taking place?

Been making CA wines, PS included, for years with BM4x4 with no issues, though coinoculation is my method of MLF.

 

[Bill McNab]

I can see multitudes of very small bubbles in 1 carboy, nothinh in the others.
However, testing with Paper C to verify. One carboy shows major move from malic to lactic.
The others show no evidence of ML.

 

[stickman]

At first glance, if the carboy with a bit more lees is progressing with ML, then it may just be a nutrient issue, so adding additional ML nutrients to the other carboys may be needed. As others have pointed out, moving some of the wine and lees between carboys seems reasonable to me.

You indicated the wine was pressed at 5 brix and moved to carboys and inoculated with ML culture. Did you verify AF completion and accurately check the final gravity of all carboys? Do you have a starting gravity and pH for the must and wine. I'm just trying to determine what ML stress factors are present.

 

[Bill McNab]

Starting sg was 1.100 finished sg .995
Ph start was 3.90
ML culture was added when AF was almost complete, maybe 1 brix.
ML nutrient was also added.
10 days ago I tried seeding the 3 carboys with no action. I am planning to rack all 3 on to the finished carboy lees. After Paper C testing to make sure the one carboy is finished ML.

 

[Bill McNab]

Update on Petite Sirah.
Nov 16/2018.
Had my 4 carboys in my garage which is unheated and in combination we got down to freezing last night , outside.
So had my carboys in their cardboard enclosure with a heater which operates with a thermostat. Used it for years, no problems.
Set it up 2 nights ago with a trial temp setting, maintained 75f all night.
On checking last night I found all 4 carboys beyond the tolerable temp for malolactic bacteria.
I assume the thermostat failed. As of this am no bubbles whatsoever, so racked all carboys and added potasium meta.
Fortunately the wine tastes very good, nice and jammy with acid at 7gm/lt.
Sad end to this years malo attempt.
Cry with me please and thanks.
Bill.

 

[jgmann67]

Update on Petite Sirah.
Nov 16/2018.
Had my 4 carboys in my garage which is unheated and in combination we got down to freezing last night , outside.
So had my carboys in their cardboard enclosure with a heater which operates with a thermostat. Used it for years, no problems.
Set it up 2 nights ago with a trial temp setting, maintained 75f all night.
On checking last night I found all 4 carboys beyond the tolerable temp for malolactic bacteria.
I assume the thermostat failed. As of this am no bubbles whatsoever, so racked all carboys and added potasium meta.
Fortunately the wine tastes very good, nice and jammy with acid at 7gm/lt.
Sad end to this years malo attempt.
Cry with me please and thanks.
Bill.

If you haven’t sulfited the wine yet, why not bring those carboys in the house to warm up. Stir every other day for a week and see what happens.

 

[CDrew]

Good luck Bill. Maybe it was done! The fact that it tastes good bodes well for the future! I will follow your thread since I made about 20 gallons of PS myself this year and would like to see how yours goes. Are you planning on any oak?

Where are you and how hard was it to get Petite Sirah there?

 

[Bill McNab]

Sorry,
I have already sulphited tbd wine. When my heater malfunctioned I think my wine got over
120 degrees . Efectively I cooked the ML bacteria.
Fortunately my wine tastes OK.
I had one carboy finish thed ML process, I will blend them together.

 

[Bill McNab]

Good luck Bill. Maybe it was done! The fact that it tastes good bodes well for the future! I will follow your thread since I made about 20 gallons of PS myself this year and would like to see how yours goes. Are you planning on any oak?

Where are you and how hard was it to get Petite Sirah there?

Hi CDrew,
Yes lets keep in touch to compare.
I have a Hungarian Oak Barrel and had my wine in it when I added my Malo culture, hoaever racked into Carboys to get a more visible tell tale bubble stream. The carboys fit into my cardnoard little shelter which is easier to keep warm for the Malo.
I live 1 hour West of Knoxville, TN.
I had no luck trying to source CA grapes , the nearest is Detroit , MI.
I used to live South of Detroit and sourced all my CA grapes from a local importer.
Got all my White grapes over the border in Canada.
Anyway, looks like Detroit is my source from now on. Pittsburgh also imports CA grapes but dont destem, Detroit does.
I have family in Ontario, Canada so I can take a road trip to visit and pick up my grapes on the way home.
Back to your question, yes I will be adding French Oak chips to my carboys, at least to 3 of my 4 carboys, so I can fine tune the entire bstch later.
As mentioned I have a Hungarian oak barrel, this time I want to use French oak for a different finish.
Bill.

 

[jgmann67]

Sorry,
I have already sulphited tbd wine. When my heater malfunctioned I think my wine got over
120 degrees . Efectively I cooked the ML bacteria.
Fortunately my wine tastes OK.
I had one carboy finish thed ML process, I will blend them together.

Oooh. I thought it went kaput in the other direction. Yeah, ida done the same thing. Glad it tastes good. And, yes - with any luck your MLF is done enough.

 

[Bill McNab]

1 month after overheating my Male culture.
My Petite Sirah has cleared very, very nicely.
Currently I have French Oak chips in my carboys.
The wine is very, very jammy, acid level is good, approx 7gm per liter.
The wine is too jammy at present, Fortunately I have 15 gal of Merlot, 6 gal PV all from 2017, oaked, filtered, acid is a little sharp so blending is in the works.
I made P ed tite S in rah 6 years ago and go, not so jammy that year, just right.
Maybe next year 30 Gal Cab Sauv , 6 gal Petite Sirah

 

[Ajmassa]

Did you ever run a recent Chroma test to confirm the other 3 carboys never got goin? 25% MLF after blended. Bummer. But Good enough I suppose if taste is on point (aside from jammy)
Few questions
- is your Hungarian barrel neutral yet to be able to age in barrel with added French oak?
-instead of chips have you used spirals, winestix, cubes, stave segments etc? Chips give off all their oak pretty quick. But French oak supposed to be a slow burn to really get that feel. Spirals or staves taking a few months as opposed to a few weeks for chips. Just a thought.
-how fine are you filtering your reds- using those rough filters pads ?

 

[Bill McNab]

You are giving me items to think about, thanks. I have always used either my barrel to impart oak, or, French Oak chips, never used stick or spirals.
Next year I will experiment.
My Barrel is 2 years old, still some oak left, this time I decided on French Oak, however, since the wine is so jammy maybe an American OakI spiral might be interesting in at least one carboy.
I have a Buon Vino superjet filter, for reds I use #2 pads, however my wine is very clear after 1 month, I will probably still filter.
Regards.
Bill.