Quantcast

making adjustments on one year old wine

Wine Making Talk

Help Support Wine Making Talk:

Siwash

Junior Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
304
Reaction score
27
hey folks,

anyone here make TA/PH adjustments on finished wine that is 1 year plus old? I bought a Vinmetrica this fall and I tested some of last year's wine to see what the PH/TA levels are. The wine could use some acid adjustment but I am afraid to do so as I think it's too late to do it. The wine is aging in 14 gallon demis

thoughts? thanks
 

Johnd

Senior Member
WMT Supporter
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
6,606
Reaction score
6,491
Location
South Louisiana
hey folks,

anyone here make TA/PH adjustments on finished wine that is 1 year plus old? I bought a Vinmetrica this fall and I tested some of last year's wine to see what the PH/TA levels are. The wine could use some acid adjustment but I am afraid to do so as I think it's too late to do it. The wine is aging in 14 gallon demis

thoughts? thanks
It's only too late after it's in the bottle. Go for it!
 

marino

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
Messages
145
Reaction score
24
I'm in the same situation but haven't understood how to use the vinmetrica. Was going to bottle tomorrow, but maybe I'll try testing again
 

NorCal

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
3,186
Reaction score
3,321
Location
Sierra Foothills, Nor Cal
Add by taste and in very small increments. I found that even .2g/l can change the flavor of a finished wine. In my case, it was for the better, but .5 g/l made it unappealing.
 

Johny99

Junior Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2010
Messages
969
Reaction score
639
As John says, not too late until it's in the bottle. I'd bench trial to make sure you like what happens before dosing the whole lot. My rule is bench trial, adjust a liter or so, taste. Ok?, sit two weeks and taste again. If you are still happy, adjust the lot.
 

Siwash

Junior Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
304
Reaction score
27
I'm in the same situation but haven't understood how to use the vinmetrica. Was going to bottle tomorrow, but maybe I'll try testing again
follow the instructions.. the vinmetrica is not too complicated
 

marino

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
Messages
145
Reaction score
24
Good advice. I never thought of that. ;)
 

dcbrown73

Clueless Winemaker
Joined
Mar 28, 2016
Messages
1,219
Reaction score
902
Interesting. Question though. Say you take 1 liter to test with. Do you just leave the carboy or whatever a liter short (not topped up) during the process? I would think topping it up would alter the overall chemistry of the batch in waiting!

Inquiring minds want to know!
 

Johnd

Senior Member
WMT Supporter
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
6,606
Reaction score
6,491
Location
South Louisiana
I'm in the same situation but haven't understood how to use the vinmetrica. Was going to bottle tomorrow, but maybe I'll try testing again
If you've got some specific questions about how to run a particular test, lots of us use the same unit and would be happy to help you work through the process. Once you go through the process, it really becomes quite easy.

Anything in particular that you are not understanding how or why to do?
 

Johnd

Senior Member
WMT Supporter
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
6,606
Reaction score
6,491
Location
South Louisiana
Interesting. Question though. Say you take 1 liter to test with. Do you just leave the carboy or whatever a liter short (not topped up) during the process? I would think topping it up would alter the overall chemistry of the batch in waiting!

Inquiring minds want to know!
My typical volume for "messing around" with pH / TA and taste adjustments out of a single carboy batch is more like 25-50 ml, one liter is more than a bottle. 50 ml is plenty for making slight incremental adjustments and tasting until you're happy. You only need 5 ml to run your final pH / TA once you get it where you want it. Then you know where you'd like the whole batch to end up and proceed from there.

Even if you took out a whole bottle to test and taste with, and used it all up (at which point you're overserved and probably shouldn't be messing with your wine for a few hours), that's only 1/30th the volume of a 6 gallon carboy, the effects of topping back up with a like wine would be miniscule, if even detectable.
 

Siwash

Junior Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
304
Reaction score
27
I made a coupe of TA adjustments last evening. I added some tartaric acid. In the past I have added tartaric then tested within 24 hours. Should I wait longer or is the acid level already altered as soon as you add the acid? Also, what about wine temp? Does a colder temp impact on the wine chemistry (PH or TA)? I ask because I had the wine stored at very cold temp (low 40s) briefly - about a week - and i've since moved it to a more appropriate temp (low 60s).

So should I wait to retest? If so how long?
 
Last edited:

Johnd

Senior Member
WMT Supporter
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
6,606
Reaction score
6,491
Location
South Louisiana
I made a coupe of TA adjustments last evening. I added some tartaric acid. In the past I have added tartaric then tested within 24 hours. Should I wait longer or is the acid level already altered as soon as you add the acid? Also, what about wine temp? Does a colder temp impact on the wine chemistry (PH or TA)? I ask because I had the wine stored at very cold temp (low 40s) briefly - about a week - and i've since moved it to a more appropriate temp (low 60s).

So should I wait to retest? If so how long?
The cooler your wine is, the longer it may take for the powdered acid to go into solution, but if you stir it in well, you should get results pretty quickly. Giving it a little time to integrate, maybe and hour or so, is something I normally do.

As @ NorCal said, don't forego tasting because you are testing with equipment, after all, taste is the most important, not getting to a certain TA or pH, assuming you're in the range of stability.......
 

dcbrown73

Clueless Winemaker
Joined
Mar 28, 2016
Messages
1,219
Reaction score
902
My typical volume for "messing around" with pH / TA and taste adjustments out of a single carboy batch is more like 25-50 ml, one liter is more than a bottle. 50 ml is plenty for making slight incremental adjustments and tasting until you're happy. You only need 5 ml to run your final pH / TA once you get it where you want it. Then you know where you'd like the whole batch to end up and proceed from there.

Even if you took out a whole bottle to test and taste with, and used it all up (at which point you're overserved and probably shouldn't be messing with your wine for a few hours), that's only 1/30th the volume of a 6 gallon carboy, the effects of topping back up with a like wine would be miniscule, if even detectable.
At 50lm test, you then just times however much you added by 75 for a six gallon batch?
 

Siwash

Junior Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
304
Reaction score
27
The cooler your wine is, the longer it may take for the powdered acid to go into solution, but if you stir it in well, you should get results pretty quickly. Giving it a little time to integrate, maybe and hour or so, is something I normally do.

As @ NorCal said, don't forego tasting because you are testing with equipment, after all, taste is the most important, not getting to a certain TA or pH, assuming you're in the range of stability.......
I dissolved it first in warm water...

My TA was 5.2 for the 2 demis I tested (post MLF TA dropped) and PH 3.66 and 3.5 respectively... Seems like a low TA IMO
 

Johnd

Senior Member
WMT Supporter
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
6,606
Reaction score
6,491
Location
South Louisiana
At 50lm test, you then just times however much you added by 75 for a six gallon batch?
What I typically do, is get the wine adjusted to the taste I like, and run TA and pH on that. Use Fermcalc to help me with the quantity of acid to bring the big batch up to that level, and work my way slowly towards the target, half of the calculated addition at a time.

I have a very accurate gram scale, but when I'm just adding minute amounts to a small sample, have a hard time trusting the decimals of a gram.............
 

Siwash

Junior Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
304
Reaction score
27
my older stuff (2015) has a strange PH/TA profile and the flavor is off too. The PH is 4.05 and the TA is .75% - so high acid and high PH. I thought it should work the other way - high TA = low PH? FWIW, I didn't carry out a MLF on the 2015 wine... I did this past fall and the wine is much better!

I have no idea what to do with the 2015 batch. I am not crazy about the flavour and even the color is very light (it's a cab-syrah blend)
 
Last edited:
Top