k-meta?

[Handy Andy]

I understand when wine is in large storage containers, adding k-meta every 3 months is recommended. What about when the wine is bottled into 75cl bottles ?? are people still suggesting adding k-meta every 3 months, or should the wine not be bottled until you are ready to drink it ??

 

[sour_grapes]

This is really two different questions:

(1) Best practice would be to hold off on bottling until it is ready. Keep it with the recommended sulfiting regimen until that time. It is not illegal or anything to bottle early, and age in the bottle, but you run the risk of having sediment in your bottles.

(2) No, one does not have to open up bottles to add sulfite. Sulfite loss will slow dramatically once in the bottle.

 

[winemaker81]

This article provides a lot of information regarding sulfite in wine. An important point is that free SO2 protects wine by binding to contaminants. I assumed it evaporated, but the SO2 gets used, so we have to replenish it.

I read another article (which I cannot locate) that said that bottles are a more closed system, so additional contaminants can't get in, so the SO2 is used up much more slowly. [I hope I'm describing this correctly.]

 

[Rice_Guy]

* you can’t practically add meta in a bottle, so we don’t, natural corks leak oxygen, think the number was five mg per year, aluminum screw caps 0.1 or 0.2 mg per year (ie commercial machine applied caps), synthetic corks depend on the grade you buy.. reserva is rated 0.2 to 0.3 mg.. the green Nomacorc comes as a 100 or 300 or 500 with more oxygen with higher number types. Nomacorc wants the purchaser to use a model which balances the reactions that occur in the wine with diffusion rate.
* a large container survives better than a small container, therefore there is a strong argument to keep wine in a carboy or stainless tank as long as possible. The typical ullage in a corked bottle contains enough oxygen to saturate the liquid with oxygen, ,,, AKA “bottle shock”, ,,, the ratio of ullage to liquid is less significant in the bulk container.
* the technical reason to add sulphite that the free SO2 is low, adding on a straight time rule can be adding when it is still high enough OR not adding enough, ,,, but if you can’t test then ,,, a time based rule is OK. ,,, my rule is try to rack/ open the carboy three or four times at most, this means if I did not open I did not add meta. I will add meta every time it is opened, or someplace in the three days before the needed process is scheduled.
* commercial wines which are made in a “reductive” environment and sealed with a tight closure should have years of shelf life in the bottle. The home wine maker typically does not nitrogen flush the press or siphons or the bottle before corking so the home wine maker’s chemistry is a clock using up shelf life.

* on a practical example 2003 I cleaned out mom’s wine stuff, one was a 1978 black raspberry which in her log said it had been racked (opened) three times, was in a carboy and it was in good shape/ good flavor.
How you process will be trial and error improving the technique. As an example I started vacuum corking three years ago in an effort to eliminate bottle shock. Wine is quite forgiving of abuse and if you do mostly red grape wine it has built in antioxidants, ,,, so two hundred years ago red grape wine had reasonable shelf life, ,,, and whites not as good and this is some of the logic of white grape being pH 3.3+/-.

 

[Rice_Guy]

This post evaluates ten webinars,, “BOOK REVIEWs” related to air exposure (AKA redox potential) while making wine. Negative as well as favorable quality changes are described for introduced oxygen. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

This webinar starts with an overview of wine degradation over years of storage and finishes with a review of bottle closures with oxygen transmission data. Of note; at the seven minute point it mentions an article that influenced Australian wineries to favor low oxygen transmission closures. The impact of air in early processes such as long pressing increases dissolved oxygen which increases measured degradation, however one don’t see this till it is bottled, 2) metals are required to catalyze/ speed up wine reactions, 3) data shows the wine chemistry (redox potential) is more important than the type of bottle closure, 4) total oxygen at packaging is more important to shelf life than the closure type. All wines consume oxygen (can become reductive) but how fast?, new closures might scavenge sulfur (reductive) aromas, 43 minutes
www.youtube.com/watch?v=09vejFiudrM * Closures – latest understanding of their impact, Presenter - Dr Eric Wilkes (The_AWRI) 2017 Over the last few decades the range of closures that have become available to the wine industry has increased significantly, along with the claims and counter-claims about their benefits for the storage and maturation of wine. The Australian Wine Research Institute has now conducted numerous closure trials in red, white and even sparkling wines. This webinar will present the current understanding of the impact that closure selection can have on wine development, including the role of oxygen, transition metals and volatile sulfur compound development, and the underlying drivers behind the chemical changes that occur as a wine ages.
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An excellent first look at the effect of oxygen in a wines quality. It covers effects from a wide range of practices as tannin addition , splash racking, dissolved oxygen, temperature effects, gas/ nitrogen flushing and tools as oxygen transmission rate or the redox meter used to find where damage is happening, and what the change means on the finished wine’s flavor. Scott Labs like AWRI point at dissolved oxygen as the main culprit for loss of shelf life. A long video but the explanation to what can be improved; 1 hour, 38 min.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETuExGmNgzE * The Basics of Oxygen Management to Preserve Wine Quality: We are excited to announce the next episode in our new Scott Labs webinar series hosted by our very own Darren Michaels. Join us for a short presentation and Q&A with special guest speaker Luke Holcombe where we will be discussing the other side of finished wine quality: oxygen management. Topics will include: - What could go wrong? Oxygen-Related Faults - Bottling and Packaging Concerns - Oxygen Management Concepts and Techniques
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This is a second look at oxygen exposure and risk analysis, again excellent. I found it interesting to have data which gave examples of what level of oxygen could be picked up in processes as racking or with a variety of closure types. I lust for one of the DO meters pictured. A final theme- we can extend wine quality into years by fixing at how much life we lose early in the winery processes. 1 hour, 7 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn7Lxq4ynN4 * Dissolved Oxygen: Why it’s Important and how to Implement a Management Program: Luke Holcombe, Scott Labs Field Sales Rep., Dissolved oxygen is the driver behind many of the most common stability and spoilage issues facing winemakers. Its negative synergistic relationship with sulfur dioxide, the role it plays with volatile sulfur defects, and microbial interactions make it worthy of attention. In this webinar, we will discuss its effects, easy to implement mitigation and removal strategies, and discuss “bottle shock” as well as “barrel shock”.

 

[winemaker81]

a large container survives better than a small container, therefore there is a strong argument to keep wine in a carboy or stainless tank as long as possible.

I disagree. This is a "one size fits all" approach that works only if the winemaker is interested in longevity.

A large percentage of our frequent posters are heavy red drinkers -- we talk about aging reds in the barrel for 1 or 2 years. This produces the result that we desire, and we are willing to wait.

OTOH, beginners are frequently advised to make a light, fast drinking red kit -- to drink while the heavier reds are aging. Bottling these wines at the 2 to 4 month makes sense, as their purpose is to be drunk soon. The one criteria is the wine needs to be clear before bottling, and if the kit instructions are followed, the wine is clear. [I make 2nd run reds for this purpose, my 2019's are very drinkable now.]

White wines? I've never made a white that had significant longevity, the ones that hit the 3 year mark started declining. Looking at vintage charts, this makes sense -- most whites are good for only 2 to 4 years. Ones that last longer are the outliers, so bottling at the 4 to 6 month mark makes sense.

In 2018 I made a Verdicchio kit. I sampled a bottle at the 6 month mark and loved it! Acidic, crisp, light! I let most of it age and by the 18 month mark it changed, matured. I'm down to a few bottles and they're good, but that youthful crispness was better. If I make this kit again, I'll bottle in 3 months, start using in 6, and plan for it to be gone by 18.

Fruit wines? They have the same variability. Some folks bulk age for a year or more, others don't. Depending on the fruit, a lot are good at the 6 month mark, and IME the lighter fruit wines have a shorter lifespan, like white wines. I have no knowledge regarding how fig wines age, as I've heard conflicting reports.

@Handy Andy, have we veered far enough off topic? I think we've answered the K-meta question, at least.

IIRC, you're growing 3 whites and 2 reds, and one of the reds is a lighter red? Check with the local commercial wineries and see how quickly they bottle. I suggest mimicking them, at least at first. The one grape, Alverino, sounds a lot like the Verdicchio, so it may be best as a younger wine.

 

[Handy Andy]

My Verdelho, American Tinte, and Alverinho all produced wines with Ph around 3.5. My Marinho and Cheiro Vines blended produced a wine with a Ph of 3.0 which is a bit acidic but still fruity and drinkable.

Would altering the Ph of the soil, alter the Ph of the wine produced??????

Last year I only took around a hundred litres of wine, mainly due to mildew problems which I didnt treat fast enough. This years vines are covered with flowers already, I am hoping for a much larger harvest, leaving me with a surplus of wine for next year.

 

[Rice_Guy]

the biggest predictor of pH is the degree of ripening. A secondary control is to reduce the malic acid with a malo-lactic fermentation or a malic fermenting yeast.

 

[Handy Andy]

the biggest predictor of pH is the degree of ripening. A secondary control is to reduce the malic acid with a malo-lactic fermentation or a malic fermenting yeast.

Thanks !!

That is likely why one of my wines has a slightly higher Ph than the others, the vines were growing a bit wild and they were the last I harvested. All the grapes might not have been as ripe as they could have been be due to how they were growing in varying degrees of shade. I have fixed that this year, by heavy pruning, but notice that again these vines are a long way behind my other vineyards. They will be the last to be harvested this year as well.

 

[sour_grapes]

Thanks !!

That is likely why one of my wines has a slightly higher Ph than the others, the vines were growing a bit wild and they were the last I harvested. All the grapes might not have been as ripe as they could have been be due to how they were growing in varying degrees of shade. I have fixed that this year, by heavy pruning, but notice that again these vines are a long way behind my other vineyards. They will be the last to be harvested this year as well.

To be clear: as grapes ripen, they lose acidity, so the pH of late-harvested grapes rises with hang time.


From a somewhat random source: The life cycle of a grapevine in 9 Steps | My Winedays - Wine Day Trip from Paris

 

[Handy Andy]

To be clear: as grapes ripen, they lose acidity, so the pH of late-harvested grapes rises with hang time.


From a somewhat random source: The life cycle of a grapevine in 9 Steps | My Winedays - Wine Day Trip from Paris

I keep mixing my terminology Ph highs and lows It wont happen again.

Is it best to have fruit dropping to the ground, whilst waiting for all the clusters to become ripe? One of my wines has a Ph of 3 which is a little more acid than my other wines which are typically Ph 3.5. This wine came from a trellice which had managed to grow wild. Some grapes were very ripe, and others not so. This year those vines have been tamed, so I shouldnt have the fruit coming ripe weeks apart different.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Is it best to have fruit dropping to the ground, whilst waiting for all the clusters to become ripe?

How much space is the plant worth?
I have Edelweiss shatter/ fall by itself when above 15 brix, all except one were given a hair cut at ground level and Briana or Itasca were put in next to their post

 

[Handy Andy]

I have vines in my vineyards and vinezillas on my trellises. My trellises have the Marino, Cheiro, and Alverino varieties. I will watch and see what happens this year, before taking a chainsaw to any of them.

The vinezillas have very good roots. If I give them a very good haircut, is it possible to graft different varieties onto the trunks/branches???