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How to know whether a wine doesnt need much aging

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byronyasgur

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I'm just getting into wine making and I've yet to make a wine. I've brewed a fair bit of beer. Naturally I'd like to be able to make a wine that would be ready sooner rather than later - some recipes say things like "this wine will be ready in a week" or a month or something ... can anybody tell me generally speaking what are the factors which determine whether a wine will be ready sooner rather than later.
I live in Ireland ( no native grapes ) so I'd prefer to start with an fruit wine like an elderberry or a raspberry or something - or even a honey or apple wine - but I'd try anything including a kit - but even the kits have varying times for ageing - does anyone have any suggestions for something along these lines that would be properly ready without having to wait a year - or should I just wait it out.
 

bkisel

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First... Welcome to the forum!

I would suggest using this recipe or a variation of it for making fruit wines... http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41825&highlight=danger+dave%27s

I and others here have started our country/fruit making ventures with this recipe.

Generally speaking my experience has been that country wines and low end kits, especially whites, allow for early consumption of some pretty decent wines. Another way to go is with the "mist" style wines from Winexpert or the competitive product from RJ Spagnols - https://www.rjscraftwinemaking.com/orchard-breezin/
 
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Kraffty

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I agree with Bill especially the thought of using the dragon blood as a base. After you do a batch or two you can adapt to any fruit you like. Welcome aboard,
Mike
 

Scooter68

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I would add to the previous comments as follows.

If you make a 1 gallon batch you are going to have 5 bottles of wine. Make a fruit wine (Non-grape, non-kit) and age it at least 3-4 months or until perfectly clear and de-gassed. Then bottle it at 3-4 months as long as there is no gas remaining or sediment (Perfectly clear)

Then drink a bottle at 4-6 months. Have another at 7-9 months, and again at 10-12 months. Continue until you have finished the batch.

As you do this you will see the marked change in even fruit wines as they reach the peak of taste. Some fruit will vary but normally at 12 months is when a wine is really 'Ready to Drink'

Meanwhile you can make additional batches learning as you go.

I'm still a newby at this with 2 years of wine making and I can tell you that I'm almost embarassed to have shared my first batch of wine at 5-6 months of age. It changed so much from then to 12 months that it was like a totally different wine. Softer on the palate, Just so much better.

You learn wine making by either making a few mistakes along the way or you don't start. I doubt that anyone on here will say they never made a mistake or never would do anything different from that first batch of wine.
 
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byronyasgur

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thanks - that looks like a great recipe - and fast - and good to know it's tried and trusted - I think I'll look no further - he says for smaller batches just do the math - I''ll be doing a one gallon - is it safe to just divide it down with no other changes
 

Noontime

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Adding to what everyone else has expertly advised, the wine is ready to drink as soon as it is bottled. The difference is going to be how much you enjoy it. The lighter and fruitier and sweeter the wine, the more likely it will be OK to drink young and enjoy it. But EVERY wine goes through a bell curve... it gets better as it integrates and gets micro-oxygenation through the cork, then hits its peak and is as good as it will ever be, then starts going down hill as it gets oxidized and old. Most wines we have made needed a year to really become good, but we certainly drink a few during that year to see where it's at (and to just satisfy our curiosity and enjoy the fruits of our labor).
 
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CabSauv

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One thing I am learning, if you make enough wine at the start of things and bulk age them you only have to be patient at the beginning. If you make more wine than you consume, you'll always have a better wine (aged wine) on hand and the waiting game for future batches to bulk age will become easier. I highly recommend doing at least one 6 gallon kit, and then start another kit a month later. I wouldn't piddle around with a one gallon run, a typical 6 gallon kit is very manageable for newbies. I took the plunge and I am glad I made more wine than what I had initially planned to.
 

byronyasgur

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I highly recommend doing at least one 6 gallon kit, and then start another kit a month later. I wouldn't piddle around with a one gallon run, a typical 6 gallon kit is very manageable for newbies.
yea I'm sort of used to the concept for my beer brewing - I'll definitely make a 6 gallon kit eventually when I want to get my pipeline established - for the first one or two I'll do a couple of 1 gallon for a number of different reasons though - but thanks what you're saying makes sense
 

wineforfun

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To add a little to all the above, which is all very good advice, if you decide you like fruit wines, you will more than likely ditch the lemon juice used in dragon blood and substitute acid blend. You are probably not going to want lemon juice with all your fruit wines.

And I too started with 1 gal. batches to get the process down. To this day I make 1 gal., 2 gal., 5 gal. & 6 gal. batches. Just depends what I am making and if I am experimenting with something.
 

Kittycat

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I have done 1 gallon and a 2 gallon batches so far. As soon as my bottles comes for my 1 gallon. I will start another one :)
 

byronyasgur

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I have a few quesitons

Would isinglass work as a fining agent - I was going to use gelatin for my beer but some say not to use that for wine - cant get sparkaloid here afaik
http://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/liquid-isinglass-vinoferm-100ml-p-1448.html

Can I use Sodium Metabisulfite instead of the Potassium

Would I use the Metabisulfite then in the airlock - I have starsan from my beer production can I not use that?
 

drainsurgeon

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Salt is good in beer. Not so good in wine. Use Potassium Metabisulfite. Insinglass, Bentonite, Chitosan are all good fining agents. Pectin enzyme (for pectic haze) and Amylase (for starch haze) work also. I've read that egg white works too but have not tried it myself. Not sure about the gelatin. Kmeta in the airlock is good. So is vodka.
 

Ron0126

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Not sure where you live but you can get a lot of things on Amazon.
Sparkalloid:https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0064GZQ6M/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Sorbate: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006O93LRK/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
K-Meta: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0064O9FN4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Also, one way to make a wine that's drinkable earlier rather than later is to use a smaller kit with a higher concentrate level. I've made 14 kits since Jan (dove into this hobby head first you might say) and have several that are early drinkers, some mid drinkers, and some longer term as well. I've also made several fruit wines (Dragon's Blood, Dragonnette, Fig, white and red grape concentrate, Strawberry, Blueberry)

This is a good article on how different wine kit sizes age.
https://winemakermag.com/90-big-kits-wine-kits
 
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byronyasgur

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I ended up getting Na-Meta because the online homebrew and winemaking store that I use - generally considered reputable said there was no difference - and because of this article -http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46916 - but lots of other people say there is a difference. I might get K-meta in future but for now I suppose this will do - I haven't put it in my wine yet but I assume any negative effects will be fairly minor - but I'm open to opinions. I'm in Ireland so I can't use those links really - I can get K-meta in one place but it's meant for purchase with a full order so the postage makes it a bit stiff - is it worth it. No sign of sparkalloid anywhere in europe that I can see. I got Kiessoll ( which danger dave says he's now using instead ) ... I couldn't get chitosan easily but I understand you can use gelatin - have to figure that out though.
 

Johnd

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I ended up getting Na-Meta because the online homebrew and winemaking store that I use - generally considered reputable said there was no difference - and because of this article -http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46916 - but lots of other people say there is a difference. I might get K-meta in future but for now I suppose this will do - I haven't put it in my wine yet but I assume any negative effects will be fairly minor - but I'm open to opinions.
For what it's worth, here's what some sources say:

Musto / Juicegrape: "This sodium source of metabisulfite is not recommended because of possible flavor changes in wine. In fact, the US government currently bans the use of sodium metabisulfite in all wines made in or imported into the country due to health concerns over sodium in wine. A much better choice would be Potassium Metabisulfite."

In the end analysis though, it is your wine, and you may certainly use what ever product you decide is appropriate for your needs.........

Winemakers Academy: "A Common Misconception: Sodium Metabisulfite can be used interchangeably with potassium metabisulfite.
While they both have very similar chemical makeups the difference is that potassium metabisulfite leaves potassium behind and sodium metabisulfite leaves sodium behind.
Potassium occurs naturally in grapes and is essential to their growth. So adding a bit more potassium to the mix isn’t going to hurt anything. There’s already some in your wine.
Sodium on the other hand is not something we want to add to our wine. Can you see yourself pouring table salt into a glass of wine? No. Don’t use sodium metabisulfite."

Winemaker Magazine: "Sodium metabisulfite: Sodium metabisulfite powder is a source of sulfites that is not recommended because of possible flavor changes in wine. You should definitely not use sodium metabisulfite to sanitize your must. You could use it to sanitize your equipment, but I would recommend keeping life simple and using potassium metabisulfite for all of your winemaking needs."
 
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