Growing From Cuttings

[Winehaus]

I have loved all the info on the site but am having trouble finding enough on growing from cuttings. Grapeman has some quality threads which is where I have started plus my background in horticulture has helped. I just want to throw some ideas out about what I want to try and let you all shoot me down or tell me I'm doing something right.

I will be collecting cuttings from various varieties over the next few months but want to practice. My idea is to put them in a tray filled with sand on top of my fridge for a week to two weeks to callous the cuttings. Currently I have no access to a heat mat.

Next is where I'm unsure. The idea is to put them in plug trays that the forestry department uses since they are deep. Another idea for when it is warmer is to use a sand/potting soil mix while using the inserts for wine cases to separate the cuttings. This will be a raised bed situation.

Any comments/suggestions on my ideas or the length of time for these steps. Also, after callusing the cuttings, how long do I have until I need to get them in the ground to root?

 

[grapeman]

I assume you are growing varieties that will be own rooted so I won't discuss that.

Most cuttings are made as about 4 or 5 bud cuttings meaning they will be between a foot and 16 inches long. Make a flat cut on one side and an angle on the other so you can tell for sure what is up and what is down. Only callous the down side. You will get 0 sucess if you do it upside down.

The idea of callousing on top of the refridgerator is fine as long as the compressor blows warm air up there. You need the callousing zone to be about 80 degrees or even a bit higher. Figure 2-3 weeks for the callouses to form. Also keep the soil/sand damp during that time- not wet.
The deep forestry plugs work well for them and you can even get milk carton material plugs that are tall like that. I have used those in the past to start the vines in. After callousing you will need to plant them in some type of plug soon after or they will grow roots and be difficult to put in the plugs without breaking the roots off.

 

[Winehaus]

So I think I will just go ahead and get a heat mat or a few since my project is getting bigger. My plan is to put the cuttings in large trays with potting soil most likely. They will be placed I a barn in a few weeks where the temp stays around 45 during the winter. I am going to put a tarp or some kind of material over the top to help hold in some heat to try and keep the air temp around 50 to 55. Where I will plant them or put them in pots/trays will be figured out at a later date.

Are there any suggestions on what heat mats to get or from where(must be shipped in). Also is there any way I can get around purchasing a small high tunnel/greenhouse and still be successful or should I just pony up now for one?

 

[grapeman]

I made the one I have now for about $250. Of course I got the plastic for free from my brother as leftover ends from his covering 14 greenhouses every few years. good luck

 

[Winehaus]

I have found some small 6 X 8 for around 250 but it is just solid with only a door. That worries me about keeping temps consistent. I do live in Kansas after all and we are getting some possible 60 degree days this week after it just dumped snow on us.

How would the cuttings do if I planted them in a raised bed in February after callousing them? Will the roots still develop while avoiding bud break if I put row covers on to warm the soil or will the cold temps cause problems?

 

[Winehaus]

Looks like I'm scrapping all of that and going with the trench method. Double A has some great pictures and info about their process. I'll be sure to upload photos when we break ground in the coming weeks. I will be bringing in some topsoil for a raised bed where they will be grown during the year then transplanted next year into their rows. Most likely will use row covers but can't decide on drip or soaker hoses. Luckily I have a few months for that decision.

Would love to hear from anyone who has gone this route and how it turned out.

 

[BobR]

Howdy Austin,

If you have a Menard's store close by, you might check with them on a heating mat. I was surprised to find that our local Menard's was already putting out plant growing "stuff." They had a grow tray with a plastic dome that included a heat mat and the starter plug tray for close to $25. They also just had the heat mat for right at $20. I picked up some fiber/peat pots, seed soil, peat moss, the grow tray and extra heat mat yesterday. I am bored stiff sitting around this winter. I went out and got just a few cuttings from my vines, just to give me something to do between now and March. My fig tree leafed out and is growing like a weed and so is a Concord grape plant that I started from seed last winter. It died off in the fall and is now taller than it was last summer. Just something to do!

 

[Winehaus]

Love the enthusiasm but this project will be for work. If Double A wasn't such a good company by replacing my dead plants for free I would be springing for that immediately. However you will probably be seeing some pictures of me doing that in a month for the hell of it.

As far as work goes it will be a project consisting of at least 2000 cuttings so that is not feasible. The problem I am now having is what to do with them after we dig them up from the trenches in the spring. I would like to start an in ground nursery since they will not be planted in their rows until next year(2014). How to do this is my problem. Row covers, irrigation and soil is a must but specifics is what I'm all about. We are all wine makers so of course we all focus on the small things. I would love some reassurance that I'm doing it right

 

[grapeman]

Just putting this out to you as an idea.
If you time things right, an outside nursery isn't such a big deal and I think you can skip a step in your thoughts. So just a summary for now as my thouight process is compromised now from the chemo. First don't rush the process at the beginning to time it right.
Steps
1) Prepare cuttings a bit ahead
2) Callous the cuttings and allow to begin to root a bit -up to an inch or so is good for planting out
3) Prepare an adequate size nursery with a tiller making sure it is grass free first. Prepare as soon as possible to get it warminbg up. You want about 6-9 inches between cuttings in the row so for 2000 vines you need at least 1000 feet of row total and more will allow for some not growing to plantable size or die off.
4)Lay your drip tape (6-12 inch spacing is good for this application) for all the rows and attach the headers. Check to see if the drip system is working by looking for damp areas.
5)Lay your plastic mulch- 3 feet should work giving you room to work and grow.
6)When the cuttings have rooted a bit or at least have a good healthy callous with plenty of bumps you can set them in the nursery.
Slit a hole a few inches across and use a trowel shove it in and wiggle back and forth to make a slot about 6 inches deep. Shove
the cutting carefully in the slot and pack the sides lightly to the cutting. Move 6-9 inches away and repeat planting all of them.
7)Keep your varieties in complete rows when possible and mark them well and even keep a map as backup un case any stakes are knocked out or lost. If you mark both ends it gives another backup.
8) Run the drip a while to moisten the ground around the cuttings but don't get soggy.
9)The plastic will warm the soil and allow the vines to grow quickly. Keep them growing well by adding some fertility as needed but don't overdo it.
10) Next spring you will need to slit the plastic to remove it from either side of the vine.
11)Using a spade fork dig carefully alond both sides of the vines - I do both sides a few feet and then go back and loosen the vines out one at a time. This is the hardest part of the whole job so get a helper for it. I shake the soil out of the roots so it helps if the nursery is sandy loose soil.
12)Be sure to mark the vines well. I tie into bundles of 10 or 25 depending on size. You can get marking tags and mark each bundle.
13)Make sure the vineyard is ready to plant into- mark out your rows ahead with flags and marking paint-it speeds up planting (this step should be done before you dig up the vines)
14) I try to dig up enough to plant in one day. If you use 5 gsallon buckets set a bundle in each bucket and fill with water until you plant after you have enough. Try 100 to see how long it takes and adjust your numbers.

That should be enough to get you an idea of one way to do things. This is a tried and viable option. I have also tried it by planting into the sleeves, but that adds a lot of work with no better results.

 

[BobR]

"As far as work goes it will be a project consisting of at least 2000 cuttings so that is not feasible."


Ooops, my mistake! I thought that you were just screwing around home and were wanting to grow a few cuttings for the heck of it. Hmmm, I just don't think 2000 cuttings will fit on a Menards heat mat. Well, good luck and be sure to send photos.

 

[Winehaus]

Thank you so much grape man for taking the time to write that up, that is exactly what I was looking for. I will keep you updated with the progress. Ground breaking should begin at the end of next week or the week after. However plans are beginning immediately(plus you did a lot of that for me).

Again thank you and I wish you the best of luck through your treatments.

 

[ThePlantGuy978]

Every one is talking heat mats. They are way too expensive and too small. I have been using old fashion rope lights for years. Only use the inconsistent ones, not the LEDs. LEDs don’t give off enough heat. I burry the rope lights in a bed of sand. They give off so much heat that I had to connect a dimmer to reduce the temp. The good thing is that they are cheap, waterproof, and only use about 5 watts/ft. Try it. It works really well.

Hans

 

[bigdrums2]

Cool idea. I've used the sandbox method with rooting hormone for much success. I may try the lights on some wild vine/norton cuttings this February/march.

 

[Winehaus]

Plant guy, could you elaborate on your setup? I have many Christmas lights that I can use and many indoor plants along with bedding plants that I would love to propagate. This would be something I would entertain trying since its of low cost/maintenance

 

[ThePlantGuy978]

Winehaus,
Here are some pics.
Hans