Grape Brands

[thesnow]

Any advise on a good quality grape, I usually buy Lodi Gold, for carbnet Sauvignon , merlot, petite syarh and also Zinfandel old vine . Yet the vender is getting more greedy jacking up prices as the day passes..any input on a recommended brand names other than Lodi is appreciated.
Thanks

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

Lodi is a grape growing region of California. Delta Packing of Lodi packs grapes under the label "Gold" for example "Lodi Gold" "Amador Gold" etc. Grape prices are way up across the board, regardless of the Packer. Shipping costs are up due to fuel and of course increased Government Regulations. Lowest quality Central Valley PIA brand grapes are selling above 40 dollars a lug, the better Central Valley Grapes such as Papagni (California Special, Teaser,Treasure) are even higher approaching 50 dollars a lug. If you are buying Lodi or Amador or Paso Robles for the price of Central Valley consider it a gift. Be aware the grapes you buy may be from Central Valley but the packer may be located in Lodi. That won't happen with Delta. If you can buy Lanza Grapes do it in a heart beat.
Malvina

 

[thesnow]

I will be going out this weekend, will be checking out the names your mentioning.
Thanks for the input, much appreciated..

 

[thesnow]

What do you guys recommend as a one blend with Zinfandel old vine, and what ratio..
I never done Zinfandel..I'm not sure. I'm thinking maybe Zinfandel and carignane or Zinfandel and petite sirah..

 

[Rocky]

Thesnow, here is a reply I made a few days ago on blending Zinfandel. Might give you some ideas.

"DCJRW, earlier this year I attended a short seminar conducted by Jan and Tom Cobett at the Pittsburgh Amateur Winemaking Competition sponsored by the AWS. The title of the seminar was "Blending in the Zinfandel Patch" and it involved blending wines to our particular taste using Zinfandel as a base and adding varying amounts of Carignane, Petite Sirah and Grenache. Each of the three "background" wines added something to the Zinfandel (Carignane added acidity, tannins and color; Petite Sirah added color, texture/mouth and bouquet; Grenache added body and fruitiness) and we tried several combinations. The combination that I made that I personally liked best was 60% Zinfandel, 15% Carignane, 10% Petite Sirah and 15% Grenache.

Now in order to blend 4 wines at home would require a fairly large operation. An approximation of what one would get from various blends could be attained by buying bottles of commercial wine and trying the combinations first. The issue with this approach is that, depending on the wine one buys, a Zinfandel, for example may only be 75% Zinfandel and 25% unknown varieties unless they are listed on the label. Some wines list accurate percentages of the varieties included, some do not.

In any case, it was an informative seminar and went somewhat into why various wines are blended with others."

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

What do you guys recommend as a one blend with Zinfandel old vine, and what ratio..
I never done Zinfandel..I'm not sure. I'm thinking maybe Zinfandel and carignane or Zinfandel and petite sirah..

10 % of Carignane and 5 % of Petite Sirah will go along way in making a much more complex Zinfandel. Most all high end commercial Zins have Petite Sirah added to them.
Malvina

 

[thesnow]

Hmmm.. 4 ingredients, the only way I could do this, is by crushing them all together into the primary. I'm wondering what the out come would be? did anybody try it? That's what I been always doing and my father and grandfather crushing all the grapes together. I would love to try it independly crushing to later blend together, just to much work.

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

A "field blend" ( crushing different varietals in one vat ) in the percentages as I described is done all the time. Especially with Zinfandel. Separate batches and blending later is of course a better way and gives the aspiring winemaker a chance to experience and develop blending skills. But after so many Zinfandel vintages under your belt you can pretty much count on the above percentages for a good starting point.
Malvina

 

[Rocky]

Thesnow, I realize that the prevalent view is to ferment separately and then blend. Co-fermentation is the other way to do this and is, in fact, how we did it at home using Zinfandel and Muscat (including the Muscat skins!) when we made our wine. I am sure that with separate fermentation, one would get a more accurate blending because the amount of wine from each variety would be known. Co-fermentatin fixes the blend of the wine from the beginning and the wine maker has less ability to alter that later. The question one has to ask is how important is it that the wine is 15% Grape X vs. 14.5%?

 

[thesnow]

Make wine once a year, have a short window for making wine, I think I'm going to attempt your receipt Rocky "60% Zinfandel, 15% Carignane, 10% Petite Sirah and 15% Grenache" field blend in one vat.

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

I would skip the grenache at all costs. Unless working with very good Grenache Noir , and you won't find it, all you will do by adding a typical lodi / central valley Grenache is to reduce structure and body of the wine. Keep in mind the winemakers that added Grenache in the past did so for two reasons. They did not want a dark wine and they were cheaper than the Zinfandels in price. As you can see Rocky talks about adding Muscat. This too is a typical blend that was does years ago for the same reasons. Not too dark a wine and the Muscat grapes were packed at 42 pounds a box instead of 36 so it was viewed as a bargain. Again no really good commercial zins have grenache blended in them. As far as percentage Rocky points out the difference between 14.5 % and 15%. I won't argue over a 1/2% but many blends of Cab are changed dramatically with the addition of as little as 2% of Petite Verdot. So blending is a bit more exact and the differences are pretty impressive with just a few percentage point of the addition of another varietal.
Malvina

 

[thesnow]

OK, I'm easy,,what do you recommend?
60% Zinfandel, 30% Carignane 10% Petite Sirah
or 70% , 20%, 10%

When the wine is ready..and If I really like your receipt! I promise.. I will send you a bottle of wine from Montreal, to you..

thanks

 

[thesnow]

I guess I'm going to try field blend, one batch of, 70%zin, 20%cari, 10%sira

and one batch (not yet sure of the ratio), 60% cabernet sauvignon , 40% alicante or merlot.

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

70% Zin 20 % Carignane 10% Petite Syrah

Your second batch 60% Cab Sav 30 % Merlot 10 % petite verdot, or syrah, or petite syrah. But don't use Allicante at that level it will totally dominate the taste of the Cab. Forget you ever heard of Allicante unless you have a color problem.
Malvina

 

[thesnow]

thanks will remove alicante

 

[Diverdown066]

Any reason why you don't want to do a single varietal Zin? One thing you could do, which would be only marginally more difficult than a field mix, is yeast pairing. Still only one crush but 2-3 different ferments with different yeast. You could still do one press if you didn't want to bulk age separately and blend later. Just a thought. Here is a little article with some yeast selections. I'm currently experimenting with this on some CS using Pastuer Red and RC212. I think the sum is greater than the parts but the wine is only a year old and I haven't bottled yet.

http://morewinemaking.com/public/pdf/wyeastpair.pdf

 

[thesnow]

I actually was thinking of this, but using a different yeast for different grape. Would like to try this next year, using the same receipe now so I can see the difference next year. Right now I'm using the same yeast for any combinations, staying in the recommended grape selection of the yeast.
Then again next years grape harvest won't be the same as this year.. probably all pointless

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

You have to have really superior Zin not to use some Petite Sirah. I don't think that is your case. As for different yeasts you can split your field blend of Zin and make one D254 and the other D80 These are pretty dramatic in difference and then when combined after really add to the Zin. If not, for only one yeast you can use either but if I were using only one yeast I would use Rock Pile for Zinfandel.
Malvina

 

[hoodich]

purchased Pia grapes 20 cases(36lb) all had lots of mold! 27 cases of zin were good so were the 8 cases of Alicante.
What do you think of elkhorn fruit compamy--caternia label?

 

[skipdonohue]

purchased Pia grapes 20 cases(36lb) all had lots of mold! 27 cases of zin were good so were the 8 cases of Alicante.
What do you think of elkhorn fruit compamy--caternia label?

I asked this same question on another board about Caterina but didnt get any responses.. I picked up and crushed my 14 cases of Caterina Petite yesterday, and was very pleased with quality of fruit.. Im assuming they are along the same quality as the California Special and Teaser brands..Brix came in just under 27 ph 3.45