Quantcast

Gonna make the jump

Wine Making Talk

Help Support Wine Making Talk:

Frosty452

Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
Messages
51
Reaction score
12
Location
OH
Well I have the itch to start my mini vineyard. Thinking Dornfelder since that is my wife's favorite wine and I can't find it in a kit. Has anyone else grown these grapes looking for advice. I plan on the vsp trellis system and have a few questions

Is 6 ft spacing sufficient for these I read on double A that they are 4-6 ft spacing

Post spacing is 24ft too much should I go to 18 ft spacing

I haven't got the soil tested yet been too cold and busy will try to get that step next (clay soil so I plan on mixing sand and peat when I deep till the rows)
 

salcoco

Veteran Wine Maker
WMT Supporter
Joined
Jan 1, 2007
Messages
2,889
Reaction score
1,187
Location
Kansas
vine spacing of 8 ft is normal with 10 ft between rows. the roots of a vine can penetrate at least 8ft. adding sand and peat to the surface may not do to good. chat with your vine supplier and see if he can supply a root stock for clay soil, this is better option.
 

Frosty452

Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
Messages
51
Reaction score
12
Location
OH
They will be on101-14 rootstock which is supposed to be good in clay but I thought the sand and peat might help in early stages similar to fruit tree planting. If I can skip that that would free up a little cash for a few more vines
 

salcoco

Veteran Wine Maker
WMT Supporter
Joined
Jan 1, 2007
Messages
2,889
Reaction score
1,187
Location
Kansas
buy the extra vines. what will help the new vines is bare ground under the plant and irrigation. I usually kept a 2 ft wide swath free of grass and weeds along my row. anything growing there is taking from the plants.
If you can kill a wide path of all grass along your proposed row. and till once everything is dead. i not know as early as you can in spring.
 

KevinL

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Messages
222
Reaction score
135
Location
Warrenville IL
Awesome! I never imagined that I'd have as much fun as I am with it. I'm glad I decided to plant. It's probably not for everyone, but if you like making wine, there are few things that are as enjoyable as enjoying a glass of wine made from grapes that you cultivated on your own soil whilst standing on that soil.

I'm curious, where are you located?

For me, for post spacing I ended up going 3 line posts for my ~90 ft rows. I set them up spaced at 24 ft originally but my rows were a little shorter than 96 feet, so I took the space and divided it up evenly. I haven't had any issues with my 20-22 foot spacing. Fewer posts is less dollars.
 

Frosty452

Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
Messages
51
Reaction score
12
Location
OH
I'm located NW Ohio south of Toledo. I was hoping someone would chime in about post spacing glad to hear that works out.
 

Dennis Griffith

Supporting Members
WMT Supporter
Joined
Jun 16, 2018
Messages
629
Reaction score
374
Location
Hillsboro, Ohio
I'm located NW Ohio south of Toledo. I was hoping someone would chime in about post spacing glad to hear that works out.
I'm in southern Ohio and glad to meet another 'budding' Buckeye grape grower like myself (4th year). I don't grow Dornfelder, but am interested and have added it to my list to consider. As to post spacing, set your posts like you said as you can always drive 8 foot T posts in later if you need additional support. Remember that your vineyard is a living thing and thus dynamic and you'll find yourself making changes each year. Just make sure the end posts are well set.

As to root stock, I've got some good advice here (thanks CK) as to a good root stock for clay type soils, the recommendation of 101-14 is a good one. I see you've found Double A, which is good. They have a ton of good information and assistance. Also, since you are in Ohio, I recommend using the testing lab located in Wilmington. The agronomist there has a background in viticulture and is available to talk if you have questions.

http://www.spectrumanalytic.com/

Also, develop a good spray program as it appears that variety may face certain challenges.

PS. Our son lives in Toledo. And there are other growers here (in the forum) from northern Ohio.
Good luck
 
Last edited:

Dennis Griffith

Supporting Members
WMT Supporter
Joined
Jun 16, 2018
Messages
629
Reaction score
374
Location
Hillsboro, Ohio
I'm located NW Ohio south of Toledo. I was hoping someone would chime in about post spacing glad to hear that works out.
I stepped out and took some shots of 2 post scenarios that I've tried. I prefer the slanted end posts as they are easier to mow around.

DSCN3713.JPG DSCN3715.JPG
 

Frosty452

Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
Messages
51
Reaction score
12
Location
OH
I'm actually going to brace on top I have access to a plethora of 1" well casing gonna counterbore the tops and tighten to them hope that works because I think that would give it nice clean look at the ends. I'm getting my vines from amberg since they are the only ones that have them in stock for spring planting this year
 

JimInNJ

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2018
Messages
106
Reaction score
66
I have 6.5 foot for each of my Dornfelder. I have read that cordon and spur may not be the best way to prune them because of a tendency not to set fruit on the first few buds. I have not tested that. I cane prune mine. They have long internodes and are fairly vigerous, and I'm finding that two canes in each direction seems to work for me. Loose clusters of big thick skinned fruit are fairly easy to take care of. I have had some challenges with late season Downy Mildew. But that is on everything, not just the Dornfelder. They do ripen early, right during the peak of yellow jacket season.
 

Dennis Griffith

Supporting Members
WMT Supporter
Joined
Jun 16, 2018
Messages
629
Reaction score
374
Location
Hillsboro, Ohio
I have 6.5 foot for each of my Dornfelder. I have read that cordon and spur may not be the best way to prune them because of a tendency not to set fruit on the first few buds. I have not tested that. I cane prune mine. They have long internodes and are fairly vigerous, and I'm finding that two canes in each direction seems to work for me. Loose clusters of big thick skinned fruit are fairly easy to take care of. I have had some challenges with late season Downy Mildew. But that is on everything, not just the Dornfelder. They do ripen early, right during the peak of yellow jacket season.
I feel your pain. I think it was just a wet season that blessed us with downy mildew. DM and Japanese beetles were my main issues this year.
 

JimInNJ

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2018
Messages
106
Reaction score
66
Thinking back, it was during the Dornfelder harvest that we first saw the DM this year. It started raining the next day and I had to try to keep leaves on the Syrah and Cab Franc for another month. Next year will be better.
 

Frosty452

Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
Messages
51
Reaction score
12
Location
OH
I fought dm in my garden this year. It finished off my cucumber plants before I figured out what it was and then got hit by black spot. Watermelon got push back and once I got it under control thrived so I have a little experience with fungal issues just hope I keep vines alive
 

JimInNJ

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2018
Messages
106
Reaction score
66
Dornfelder is vinifera, so you will need to work out a spray program and stay ahead of the diseases. You get a year or two to figure it out before you have to do it for real with fruit on the vines.
 

Frosty452

Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
Messages
51
Reaction score
12
Location
OH
I have 6.5 foot for each of my Dornfelder. I have read that cordon and spur may not be the best way to prune them because of a tendency not to set fruit on the first few buds. I have not tested that. I cane prune mine. They have long internodes and are fairly vigerous, and I'm finding that two canes in each direction seems to work for me. Loose clusters of big thick skinned fruit are fairly easy to take care of. I have had some challenges with late season Downy Mildew. But that is on everything, not just the Dornfelder. They do ripen early, right during the peak of yellow jacket season.
Thanks for the pruning advice I may try a row of each just to get a comparison. If it doesn't work out I can go back correct?
 

Frosty452

Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
Messages
51
Reaction score
12
Location
OH
Dornfelder is vinifera, so you will need to work out a spray program and stay ahead of the diseases. You get a year or two to figure it out before you have to do it for real with fruit on the vines.
Yeah that is my next research topic. Then I have to figure out where to buy. This in really keeping my mind busy and I love it and it's all hypothetical still
 

JimInNJ

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2018
Messages
106
Reaction score
66
Cane to cordon is easy. The other way might be a bit more work, haven't tried it, but as long as you keep a healthy spur near the trunk I think you'd be good.

Tuns of information about spraying and Integrated Pest Management (IPM) here and on the university extension web sites.

Is the interest in Dornfelder based on it commonly being sweet when encountered in the US, or have you been able to find any dry examples?
 

Frosty452

Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
Messages
51
Reaction score
12
Location
OH
No dry examples. Wife likes the dornfelder and if I need to I'll back sweetened to her liking. I'm more in for the process. I'm sure more grapes will be in my future
 

Latest posts

Top