RJ Spagnols Difference in primary/secondary procedures

[Daslogster]

I have noticed that the instructions given on the RJS website vary between 14 days in the primary (eg. cru select) to 6ish days in the primary and 20 or so days in the secondary (eg. en primeur). I have started a couple of cru internationals, which are a week in primary and 20 days in secondary as well. Why would some kits be in primary for 2 weeks and others you move after the first week. I ask as I have a couple higher end RJS kits coming and wanted to plan timelines.

 

[cpfan]

Grape pack brands seem to be 7 days in primary. Non grape pack brands seem to be 14 days in primary.

Steve

 

[Daslogster]

I found a previous thread that also talked a bit about this. Would there be any issues moving it to a carboy with an airlock after a week and when SG dropped even though the instructions say 14 days in primary?

 

[Wade E]

Never go by amount of days. I ferment all of my wine dry in primary. if you are going to rack it over to glass do it around 1.020 and give it a little stir first to ensure you dont leave much viable yeast behind or you could end up with a stuck fermentation. Racking it over any earlier and you wont have enough space in there for such a vigorous fermentation and you have your airlock blown right out or possibly a mess on the ceiling if something plugs up the airlock, picture a fountain!

 

[Dugger]

There really is no consistency to the RJS directions; some wineskin kits do a 1 week primary and some do a 14 day primary; most non skin kits do a 14 day but some do a 1 week. I have questioned Spagnols on this and have not received a satisfactory answer, probably because there is no logical rationale for it.
However, Spagnols recognize this and has recently reviewed its directions and have made some revisions. I don't know what the changes will be or when they come out but I would think it won't be too long.
They are also cleaning up their process of labeling additive packages so they can be identified - again not sure when but hopefully soon.

Daslogster - there is no problem moving at about a week if you prefer, as long as your SG isn't too high, as Wade states. If this kit has a grapeskin pack, I would suggest keeping it in the bucket for no less than a week to get good extraction from the skins. Do NOT transfer the skins ( or oak dust) to your carboy or you will likely plug it and have a mess.
If you want to follow the directions for these particular kits you have coming but don't know what they are, go to Spagnols website and view them ( under resources) and then you can plan your timelines.

 

[cpfan]

A few years ago when Spagnols first intro'd the 14 day primary ferment instructions, they told dealers and customers that they could continue to follow the 7 day primary instructions, if they wished.

Dugger...look at the brands, not the kits/varieties. According to the online instructions, En Primeur and Cellar Classic Winery Series (both grape skin brands) do a 7 day ferment (even if there are no skins in the kit, eg a white). Note there are no online instructions for Grand Cru International (also a grape skin brand), and I have never made one, so it may be an exception.

The other brands (including Cru Select which has a couple of grape skin varieties, but is really a non-grape skin brand) have a 14 day ferment. Exception: Premier Cru has 7 day instructions, but is not a grape skin brand.

Does it make sense? Not to me. Maybe an RJS retailer can chime in here, but I don't think any visit this forum regularly.

Steve

 

[Dugger]

Steve - you're right, I probably overgeneralized. The GCI kits use the 7 day ferment as well so it seems the general idea was for grapeskin kits to follow this and non-skin kits to use the 14 day. Unfortunately because of the many exceptions ( the Cru Select RQ kits also use 14 day) it's not uniformly applied. Hopefully the new instructions will remedy this.

 

[robie]

As was already mentioned, skip the 14 day scenario and go for the 7/7. They are just trying to save you what they deem an unnecessary step for the specific kit. Of course, like Wade said, it's NOT really 7/7 days, but is based strictly on SG. Also as Wade said, beware of transferring to the carboy too soon.

IMO, by recommending you do one fermentation of 14 days, they are really saying it's OK for this wine to set on the lees for this longer period for these specific 14-day kits.

 

[cpfan]

As was already mentioned, skip the 14 day scenario and go for the 7/7. They are just trying to save you what they deem an unnecessary step for the specific kit. Of course, like Wade said, it's NOT really 7/7 days, but is based strictly on SG. Also as Wade said, beware of transferring to the carboy too soon.

Personally I wouldn't choose 7/7, I would go 7/21 or even longer. Once it is in carboy with an air lock and protected, the wine can safely sit for a while. No need to rush. Remember Tom's 3 P's...patience, patience, patience (and I like to spice it up with a little procrastination).

Steve

 

[Daslogster]

Thanks for all the info, I start checking SG at about day 6 and make sure it hasn't changed for 3 days before racking to secondary. I was looking online at instructions and wondered if they were saving a step for the rushy-rushy crowd or they had a method to the differences in the instructions. I am inclined to move into a carboy once the SG stays in place and then I can leave it for a couple weeks or so.

 

[EdwardLongshanks]

I noticed this as well and it seems the 4 week kits recommend 14 days in the primary, then 14 in the carboy. there is no fermenting in the carboy with 4 week kits. the 5 and 6 week kits require fermenting in the glass carboy.
It seems the extra time allows for 1 more step