These recipes might be of some help:
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/reques58.asp
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/reques87.asp
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/reques58.asp
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/reques87.asp
Cranberry 06
- Thread starter jojo
- Start date
Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:
Masta: I'm going to start a cranberry next, I have2 questions
1). I love cranberries with orange zest added, can I just add this to any recipe? If I do..... will it be any good?
2) most recipes I have seen call for Welch's white grape juice. All I can find in the stores lately for some reason is Welch's "Niagra" which has sulfite (or sorbate or something) added to it. Can I use Welch's frozen cranberry juice as a substitute whithout overpowering the taste, or ruining the taste?
3) should I do 1 gallon or 3?Edited by: jobe05
1). I love cranberries with orange zest added, can I just add this to any recipe? If I do..... will it be any good?
2) most recipes I have seen call for Welch's white grape juice. All I can find in the stores lately for some reason is Welch's "Niagra" which has sulfite (or sorbate or something) added to it. Can I use Welch's frozen cranberry juice as a substitute whithout overpowering the taste, or ruining the taste?
3) should I do 1 gallon or 3?Edited by: jobe05
MedPretzel
Senior Member
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2004
- Messages
- 2,239
- Reaction score
- 10
jobe05 said:
3!!!!!!!!!!!!!
jobe05 said:
1. Excellent idea with the zest...Go for it!
2. Niagara has sulfite added (100 ppm according to Hal who has tested it) it is ok to use but do not add any more (k-meta,campden tabs)
Cranberry concentrate is ok to use but careful of too much cranberry as it will be very tart.
3. Make 3 to start and you could always divide it up in 1 gallon jugsand tweak each one with more zest, oak, sweetness level!
bilbo-in-maine
Senior Member
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2005
- Messages
- 611
- Reaction score
- 2
Masta, Martina, anyone:
Last weekend I started several gallons of cranberry/currant from Jack
Kellers recipe for the same, using invert sugar made with lemon juice.
Masta mentioned tartness, and I would have thought cranberries are
naturally acidic. Jack's recipe didn't call for any acid to be added, so I
figured the lemon plus acid in cranberries would provide acid to a proper
level. Last night I checked TA with my little $7 kit and got a color change
at a surprisingly low number, around 4%. The pH (based upon paper strip)
is maybe 3.4. So, titratable acid seems low but pH is in the ballpark.
Adding acid blend will drive the pH lower if I understand correctly. Any
advice?
By the way, this was started with Montrachet. I let the must get down near
62 degrees and fermentation dropped off sharply. It is back in warmer
territory now and fizzing well again, but Montrachet does seem to be
sensitive to the low range Masta mentioned elsewhere.
Bill
Last weekend I started several gallons of cranberry/currant from Jack
Kellers recipe for the same, using invert sugar made with lemon juice.
Masta mentioned tartness, and I would have thought cranberries are
naturally acidic. Jack's recipe didn't call for any acid to be added, so I
figured the lemon plus acid in cranberries would provide acid to a proper
level. Last night I checked TA with my little $7 kit and got a color change
at a surprisingly low number, around 4%. The pH (based upon paper strip)
is maybe 3.4. So, titratable acid seems low but pH is in the ballpark.
Adding acid blend will drive the pH lower if I understand correctly. Any
advice?
By the way, this was started with Montrachet. I let the must get down near
62 degrees and fermentation dropped off sharply. It is back in warmer
territory now and fizzing well again, but Montrachet does seem to be
sensitive to the low range Masta mentioned elsewhere.
Bill
bilbo, I can't answer your question, buit would like to add to it if I may. My gut feeling when I read your question was just add more lemon juice or (for me) orange juice or zest to the must. Would that increase the acid and not impair the PH?
Bill,
I might have a bit off base with my post amount the amount of cranberry used as an issue. I had used a cranberry concentrate in a wine and the TA and pH was off the chart and prevented the start of fermentation. If you follow a proven recipe you should be fine.
Sorry for the confusion and the best way to attack this is to test the must and adjust if need.
The main thing to remember about acid testing is that TA (titratable acidity ) is the measurement of the amount of acid in your solution and the pH (potential of hydrogen) is the strength of the acid. Two wines or must with the same TA could have a different pH because of what type of acid is present.
Here are some links to help you understand it better:
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/acid.asp
http://www.finevinewines.com/Wiz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5 41&PN=2
Your cranberry/current wine is a bit low with a TA .04% but I would wait to adjust until after fermentation. The best way to adjust this later on is to adjust to your target TA and taste it.
Your must have a certain amount of acid in your wine in order for it to be balanced but the final amount can be a matter of taste of who is drinking it.
It is your wine and should taste good to you.Edited by: masta
I might have a bit off base with my post amount the amount of cranberry used as an issue. I had used a cranberry concentrate in a wine and the TA and pH was off the chart and prevented the start of fermentation. If you follow a proven recipe you should be fine.
Sorry for the confusion and the best way to attack this is to test the must and adjust if need.
The main thing to remember about acid testing is that TA (titratable acidity ) is the measurement of the amount of acid in your solution and the pH (potential of hydrogen) is the strength of the acid. Two wines or must with the same TA could have a different pH because of what type of acid is present.
Here are some links to help you understand it better:
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/acid.asp
http://www.finevinewines.com/Wiz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5 41&PN=2
Your cranberry/current wine is a bit low with a TA .04% but I would wait to adjust until after fermentation. The best way to adjust this later on is to adjust to your target TA and taste it.
Your must have a certain amount of acid in your wine in order for it to be balanced but the final amount can be a matter of taste of who is drinking it.
It is your wine and should taste good to you.Edited by: masta
MedPretzel
Senior Member
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2004
- Messages
- 2,239
- Reaction score
- 10
I'm a pH dummy, so I would hate to offer advice that I am unsure about.
As for Montrachet yeast, however, I think I sorta know something about it. Don't worry. I have major temperature swings in my basement (used to be an old coal cellar) within the year. Montrachet (and Lalvin-72B-1122) are the only ones that handle it decently.
Premier Cuvee has been working this year so far. But Montrachet - I like it. You can't make a port with it or anything, but a good wine with up to about 14% abv is what you get with Montrachet. It usually gets a bad rap from other winemakers, but even Jack Keller recently mentioned how much he likes it.
Whoops, forgot to mention that you might want to get yourself a heating pad or a brew-belt. It keeps the temperature of your must/carboy/wine at a constant temp. The b-b's are adjustable and I usually can get 2 snuggled up to one another and keep them a couple of degrees warmer than the ambient temp.
Hope this helps - again, sorry that I can't help you with pH...
MartinaEdited by: MedPretzel
As for Montrachet yeast, however, I think I sorta know something about it. Don't worry. I have major temperature swings in my basement (used to be an old coal cellar) within the year. Montrachet (and Lalvin-72B-1122) are the only ones that handle it decently.
Whoops, forgot to mention that you might want to get yourself a heating pad or a brew-belt. It keeps the temperature of your must/carboy/wine at a constant temp. The b-b's are adjustable and I usually can get 2 snuggled up to one another and keep them a couple of degrees warmer than the ambient temp.
Hope this helps - again, sorry that I can't help you with pH...
MartinaEdited by: MedPretzel
bilbo-in-maine
Senior Member
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2005
- Messages
- 611
- Reaction score
- 2
Jobe, Masta, Martina - Thanks for your replies.
Masta, your second link didn't work. I've combed through Jack's pages
more than once and have come away with the clear lesson that paying
attention to acid level is important in a country wine if for no other reason
than to keep the wine protected from invasion (I don't mean by wine
drinkers in the house
), but also for taste and mouthfeel. I bought the
TA kit but now wonder if I should do as Martina and you have done and
get a more expensive pH meter, just to make sure that starting musts are
at least in the ballpark in terms of both amount and strength of acid. As
Martina said, she placed in competition, but judges looked for a more
acidic character sometimes. The taste quality of the wine depends on it.
This leads to a response to Jobe's question about adding citric acid to a
recipe. Assuming we can know what acid levels we are working with, the
question of what type of acid to add, if needed, probably hinges on
personal taste preference. We are used to mostly tartaric in our grape
wines, and this is the dominant acid in the acid blend products we buy. I
would tend to want to use the blend in a non-grape base to provide the
qualities that tartaric acid gives. Jack says that citric acid disappears
during fermentation, but if you have a recipe using a lot of citric fruit as a
base, there is plenty to go around to start with.
Bill
Masta, your second link didn't work. I've combed through Jack's pages
more than once and have come away with the clear lesson that paying
attention to acid level is important in a country wine if for no other reason
than to keep the wine protected from invasion (I don't mean by wine
drinkers in the house
TA kit but now wonder if I should do as Martina and you have done and
get a more expensive pH meter, just to make sure that starting musts are
at least in the ballpark in terms of both amount and strength of acid. As
Martina said, she placed in competition, but judges looked for a more
acidic character sometimes. The taste quality of the wine depends on it.
This leads to a response to Jobe's question about adding citric acid to a
recipe. Assuming we can know what acid levels we are working with, the
question of what type of acid to add, if needed, probably hinges on
personal taste preference. We are used to mostly tartaric in our grape
wines, and this is the dominant acid in the acid blend products we buy. I
would tend to want to use the blend in a non-grape base to provide the
qualities that tartaric acid gives. Jack says that citric acid disappears
during fermentation, but if you have a recipe using a lot of citric fruit as a
base, there is plenty to go around to start with.
Bill
I fixed the second link...
I would agree a pH meter is a great tool to have when making wine other than kits. When I had this trouble with my apple/cranberry not starting fermentation I was able to troubleshoot the problem fairly quickly with an acid test and pH reading. I bought my pH meter when I decided to start making mead but so far have not run into a pH issue and had to use it for that.
The more tools you have to help make better wine and troubleshoot problems are well worth the cost in my book!
I would agree a pH meter is a great tool to have when making wine other than kits. When I had this trouble with my apple/cranberry not starting fermentation I was able to troubleshoot the problem fairly quickly with an acid test and pH reading. I bought my pH meter when I decided to start making mead but so far have not run into a pH issue and had to use it for that.
The more tools you have to help make better wine and troubleshoot problems are well worth the cost in my book!
