considering altering a recipe for Apple Ale...

[Brewgrrrl]

Okay, I finally have some time to brew and I have two recipes on deck. The first is a porter (of course!). The second is one I've never done before - an apple ale that includes a gallon of cider in the must. I'm brewing from an extract recipe for time's sake, so there are some specialty grains but not a full mash. What I would like to do though is modify the recipe in an attempt to mimic the sour tartness of a lambic without the aging (because my basement is full of wine and no beer!). I'll eventually start a true lambic but this one's going to be relatively quick so that we have something to drink around here.


So I spoke with a couple people yesterday and basically the suggestions were to (1) use White Labs Belgian Wit II yeast, which ferments with a sour character (2) add some sour malt to the specialty grains, and (3) add lactic acid to taste at bottling.


Any other thoughts on this little project of mine? Any suggestions about how much sour malt to add to a plain-ale recipe to get more of a lambic-y flavor?


Thanks!

 

[Brian B]

Adding some acid malt or lactic acid will add some sour character but will not get you the other flavors that are in a Lambic. I would start with around a pound for a five gallon batch, you can always add some lactic acid at bottling time if you do not fine it sour enough.

The other flavors come from different strains of Brettanomyces and Pediococus, and take time to develop. I find using one of the Lacto strains and a neutral ale yeast work well for a fairly quick (6 weeks) Berliner Weiss style beer. One thing to be careful of is the hopping rate when using any of the bacteria’s, you want to keep it fairly low for most of them. If you decide you want to go with the Lambic the Wyeast Roselare Blend is a great yeast/bacteria combo, but it does take at least a year for the flavors to properly develop.

 

[Brewgrrrl]

Thanks, Brian! Yes, I definitely want to do this again as a true lambic - I know that I will not be able to get the whole flavor profile but right now it is HOT and I am THIRSTY!

Have you ever had Lindemann's Pomme (apple lambic)? That's my favorite summertime treat and I'd love to have something similar I can make at home (as the darn things are $10 a bottle here). I'm hoping to get a sour-apple ale going right away and then later on start a true apple lambic.


When you say, "using one of the true Lacto strains and a natural ale yeast" are you suggesting a yeast combination or is that the bacteria?

 

[Brian B]

I have tried the Lindemann's Pomme, and all of the other Lindemann's products. They are sweet side for a lambic. My understanding is they are pasteurized after fermentation and then back sweetened and force carbonated. That amount of sweetness would not survive in a bottled conditioned beer, they yeast/bacteria would consume all of the sugar.

For the lacto I would use the Wyeast Lactobacillus and Wyeast 1056 or Safeale US05. For what you want to do I would pitch both yeast at the same time. The tough part in a beer like this is the sweetness, between the yeast and lacto it will be a very dry beer, refreshing, but dry. I would try to use a couple of gallons of apple cider and have the rest of the fermentables come from extract. I would also try to add some acidulated malt for some of that lacto flavor and some honey malt, which should add some residual sweetness.

 

[Brewgrrrl]

Thanks, Brian. I was actually able to grab the last vial of White Labs Belgian Wit II last night, which word has it ferments pretty sour. I also got a great suggestions from someone; at bottling, if I want it to taste more "tart" I can add some acid blend to taste. I hadn't thought of that and I think it's a great idea - a tart flavor would go great with apple. Finally, I plan to use a gallon of apple cider with the kit and then maybe add about 1/4 of the bottle of apple flavoring that came with it, which should add a little of that sweet flavor back to the beer. I like your idea of adding some honey malt too so we'll see what I end up doing this weekend. Thanks again.