Bulk Aging - finer points

[milant]

With my first batch all bottled and second batch (Dragon's Blood) fermenting, my attention is already on my third batch - Eclipse Merlot kit. On this one I want to incorporate bulk aging.

The usual aspects of time, racking, sulfating, types of airlocks and airlock liquid, temperature, light have all been sufficiently answered here. But I do have questions regarding topping up and clarifying.

1. On clarifying: I understand that one of the main benefits of bulk aging is that over time CO2 will dissipate naturally not needing degassing or at least not extensive degassing. However, I also understand that with time, the wine will naturally clear on its own as well. K-Meta and K-Sorbate being needed regardless (perhaps not - see #2), do I still need a clarifying agent (Chitosan, Sparkloid, etc.)? Certainly, it shouldn't hurt anything, but why add what is not needed. I'm just thinking out loud here...

2. On topping up: Reducing the area of the wine in contact with air reduces chances for infection and contamination, so topping up wine in the carboy is strongly suggested. The most common technique is to add liquid. Adding water does not make sense at all, and adding any type of commercial wine sounds a lot like non-scientific blending. Furthermore, "adding like wine" can mean a lot of things at least to my precise engineer mind. Anyhow, to me the the most logical approaches are using a smaller carboy and using marbles. What are your opinions on those approaches? Where do I get the marbles if that is the way to go? Should I seriously reconsider topping up with commercial "like" wine?
Second, if topping up is intended to help with not-contaminating wine, can I skip the sorbate? Corollary: if I'm adding sorbate and metabisulfate, is topping up really necessary?

-m

 

[richmke]

On Clarifying:

On dry red kits I will age bulk age, I skip all the clarifying agents (including bentonite) and sorbate (don't need it if you are not back-sweetening).

An RJS super tuscan, after a year of bulk aging, did drop a little sediment in the bottle. Another racking would have helped.

On topping up:

Smaller carboy (5 gallon) with a smaller side bottle (various sizes from 375ml to 1 gal). I have used marbles. Make sure you get clear marbles without lead. I have also used corks. Most recently, I use the All-in-one Headspace eliminator.

 

[AZMDTed]

Congrats on your first batch.

Your post could start an interesting discussion. I can't answer all of your points, but let me help on a couple things you said.

Item 2. The purpose of topping up is to reduce your wines exposure to oxygen to prevent oxidation. There may be a secondary benefit of preventing contamination, but that's really what the KMeta additions are for. Topping up reduces the surface area of wine exposed to oxygen to the point that when it's top up to the neck of a carboy there is both a very small surface and a very small volume of air left in the carboy. it's akin, and even less proportionally, to wine in a bottle under cork.

While I understand an engineering mind, I think you're over estimating the flavor control of like wine used in topping. Yes, sometimes it takes a bottle and a half to top up, but when using like wine the potential added liter to the 23 liters you already have in there isn't that much difference. Try to get as close in variety and quality as you can, but in the end it won't change the nature of your wine greatly. If you mix completely different varietals then of course all bets are off.

I've not used marbles so I can't help you there. Once you have several kits under your belt, it becomes easier to top up your wine with a previous kit of the same type. You're not losing any wine, you're just delaying when you'll consume it.

Sorbate is used to prevent yeast from continuing to multiply, it's not a clearing agent. Sorbate can be discarded if you are sure that you have fermented to dry and will not be backsweetening. But you can't skip the Kmeta, as I mentioned before it's what preserves the wine.

 

[Johnd]

1. do I still need a clarifying agent (Chitosan, Sparkloid, etc.)?

No, you do not need to use the clearing agents if you intend to bulk age, but plan to age long enough to allow complete clearing, time depends upon the wine itself.

2. On topping up: . What are your opinions on those approaches? Where do I get the marbles if that is the way to go? Should I seriously reconsider topping up with commercial "like" wine?

Personally, I top up with "like" wine. If doing a Cab kit, top with a commercial Cab, Merlot kit, a commercial Merlot. The little bit of wine you are adding to top up won't materially change your wine, normally taking a bottle or two depending on your racking practices.

Second, if topping up is intended to help with not-contaminating wine, can I skip the sorbate? Corollary: if I'm adding sorbate and metabisulfate, is topping up really necessary?

If your wine is fermented dry, and you don not intend to backsweeten, you can skip the sorbate, but never skip the KMS. Even if properly topped up, the KMS protects against more than oxidation, the little nasties that can ruin your wine. For me, skipping KMS isn't an option at all.

-m

I hope the above info helps you out in your quest.

 

[bkisel]

Haven't used my marbles in years!. [No, I haven't lost my marbles. They're on a shelf somewhere near my other little used wine equipment.] I also use a like wine be it something I've made and have on hand or commercial if necessary. What I've found though is that with experience and being just a bit generous with my 23L mark I really don't have to do much topping.

I use all the additives that you'll get in the kits and that you'll see in most recipes as I don't bulk age for more than 3 months. My bottle aging is generally 2-3 months but of course some (many?) bottles from the batch don't get consumed for months after the first bottle of the batch is opened.

 

[heatherd]

I bulk age whites and reds for six months now.

I use all the chemicals in the kit except the clarifier and the sorbate. It's a personal preference but I like to put as few things in my wine as possible. Also I gift wine and have had a friend break out from drinking wine with superkleer, so I avoid clarifiers.

In terms of degassing, I find that six months works for removing gas.

In terms of topping up, I use similar wine.

I add 1/4 teaspoon of kmeta every three months.

Then I rack before bottling into a primary fermenter. They are easier to clean than a carboy, plus the bigger size is good if you need to add a flavoring pack.

I find six months will clear and degas the wine, but I still check both before bottling.

 

[Noontime]

I have also used corks.

That is a very inventive and unique idea. But doesn't the cork rise to the top and displace the wine lower, increasing the exposed surface area instead of reducing it? I'm intrigued.

 

[Noontime]

As others have said, even if you added a full bottle of wine, it's 3% of the total volume so it doesn't affect the flavor considerably. We top up with commercial wines. We buy very inexpensive red and white wines that we know are OK (generic well made wines), and keep them on hand for topping up; usually a cab sauv for reds and pinot grigio for whites (or riesling for our fruit wines).

 

[dcbrown73]

That is a very inventive and unique idea. But doesn't the cork rise to the top and displace the wine lower, increasing the exposed surface area instead of reducing it? I'm intrigued.

I think it works two ways.

First, if enough corks are used, the top of the carboy can force the corks into the wine which will then displace the head space.

Secondly, even if you're not displacing wine closing the headspace. Displacing the gas in the carboy will also help as the atmosphere contains about 21% oxygen which I believe comes out to around 209k ppm. If you displace half of that with cork, you are displacing half of the oxygen that could containment the wine. Obviously, you would want to displace more air than just half. You would want to get it as high as possible. Well into the 90%+ range.

Of course displacing the liquid (marbles or top off wine) is the best option since it has no nooks and crannies that oxygen can hide.

 

[AZMDTed]

I think it works two ways.

Of course displacing the liquid (marbles or top off wine) is the best option since it has no nooks and crannies that oxygen can hide.

I would be more concerned about what else is hiding in the nooks and crannies of corks besides oxygen. I think I've heard a stat that said about 7% of bottles would get cork taint. That's about 2 bottles per kit. That sucks but you still have 28 other bottles. I wouldn't risk a whole carboy full of wine by using several corks in there just to save some dollars on top off wine.

 

[dcbrown73]

I would be more concerned about what else is hiding in the nooks and crannies of corks besides oxygen. I think I've heard a stat that said about 7% of bottles would get cork taint. That's about 2 bottles per kit. That sucks but you still have 28 other bottles. I wouldn't risk a whole carboy full of wine by using several corks in there just to save some dollars on top off wine.

Good point. I was just explaining the physics behind what using corks (or another floating material) could do.

 

[Scooter68]

The problem with adding corks, marbles or anything else to take up space in the container is that you have to certain that those things are totally sanitized - anything like that could have bacteria or yeast spores etc on it and that's not something you need to introduce into that wine.

So much easier to just bump up the fruit/sugar content to permit topping off with distilled water. You don't introduce new flavors or other chemicals, even from a bottled reliable wine maker. Again that's just my opinion but I be doggoned if I'm going to spend my time and effort creating my own wine from fruit or whatever and then pay for a commercial wine with other flavors in it. I just want to know what I'm created is my creation for better or for worse.

I got into wine making because I had a great sweet apple wine in Germany at a restaurant. Came home and went looking for an Apple wine, pfft not to be found or if found, they can't ship it to my state. So I shopped a couple of good local wine stores for some other fruit wines and found their Blueberry wine (Contains: Grapes, Pear, and Blueberries...) or Blackberry wine (Contains Grape, Apple, and Blackberry juices...) I wanted Blueberry wine, or Apple wine not some conglomeration of fruits .... You get my drift. Sorry to harp and sound so negative but it just seems that one of the advantages of making your own wine is that you get exactly what you want in there and the cost is going probably below what you would pay for a commercially produced 'flavored' wine at the store. Adding additional Berries or Peaches etc is a small adjustment to make. After a few batches I quickly learned that you can pretty well predict what the literal fallout from a given fruit will be and allow for that additional fruit, or enlarge the batch to provide for that loss, save the excess in a fridge, or keep several smaller 'carboys' to handle the shrinkage.

Sorry to go negative ....but I hate to see new folks told to go buy some commercial wine to add to their homemade wine. Sorta sounds like buying a pizza, taking it out of the box and claiming to friends "Look what I made." (Even if it's only 3 % of the total batch.) Think they can be coached to find other ways to solve the problem.

I'll try to be nicer next post and shorter.... really.

 

[bkisel]

Well, this OP did ask for our opinions concerning topping off. The OP was/is clearly aware of several topping off methods and appears some of the pros and cons associated with a particular method.

 

[Johnd]

To me, it makes no difference to top up with other wine when I need to. I use my own when I have the varietal, store bought if I don't. It's still mine regardless. Just my opinion.

 

[mikewatkins727]

On Clarifying:

On topping up:

Smaller carboy (5 gallon) with a smaller side bottle (various sizes from 375ml to 1 gal). I have used marbles. Make sure you get clear marbles without lead. I have also used corks. Most recently, I use the All-in-one Headspace eliminator.

I have made "corks" using silicone RTV compouond by putting blobs of them on wax paper and letting them cure. They must age for several months to make sure no compounds are present in the "corks" Find an FDA approved silicone to use.

 

[richmke]

I used Nomacorc to avoid the wine taint problem. I pushed the cork in to raise the wine level to the neck of the carboy. I then used the corks to bottle the wine.