WineXpert Astringency or Dryness Effect Wanted

[JerryF]

I have made many, many wine kits now, mostly reds with the odd white thrown in (Red preference). One thing I have never accomplished has been the tart, mouth puckering feel of many of the comercially produced Italian (Chianti, Valpolicella) or French (Barolo) reds. I've tried raising the dryness by using varying amounts of corn sugar in the primary fermentation. I've achieved significantly higher ABV levels (in the range of 15.5 - 16.5%) but I still don't get that mouth pucker astringency that I'd like to get in some of the reds used for eating meals. Have used additional grape tannin powder but never very high amounts (maybe tops was about 1 tsp in a whole 5-gal. kit batch). So, I guess the question is; is dryness and astringency the same thing? Don't believe so but thought I should ask. What do I need to do if I want a significant astringency effect in the odd batch of red? More grape tannin powder? Is there a strong liquid grape tannin concentrate?

Jerry

 

[Badiali]

What you refer to is tanin. Chew a grape stem from some store bought grapes you will experience it. You can add grape skin and stem tanins to achieve your desired level. Dryness refers to residual sugars. If you go to dry, there is none. Alcoholic wines are called "hot". It is considered a fault if you can taste the alcohol prominently in the wine. However, many of my friends prefer my wines that I make hot. I prefer a hotter wine myself.

Just an FYI, as an Italian I have to tell you, Barolo is from piemonte region of Italy, not France.

 

[Julie]

Yes what you need to do is add tannins, this will give you a better mouth feel and that pucker you are looking for. I would suggest adding tannins post fermentation.

 

[JerryF]

What you refer to is tanin. Chew a grape stem from some store bought grapes you will experience it. You can add grape skin and stem tanins to achieve your desired level. Dryness refers to residual sugars. If you go to dry, there is none. Alcoholic wines are called "hot". It is considered a fault if you can taste the alcohol prominently in the wine. However, many of my friends prefer my wines that I make hot. I prefer a hotter wine myself.

Just an FYI, as an Italian I have to tell you, Barolo is from piemonte region of Italy, not France.

You are absolutely right. I think I was staring at my Malbec kit box when I said Barolo was a French wine. I was bouncing back and forth trying to decide which to make next. Thanks.

 

[JerryF]

Thanks Julie. Do you have any thoughts on using a powdered grape tannin or a liquid tannin of some sort? The powdered stuff never seems to dissolve or at least mix evenly. Always find little clumps. Even though I've only ever used very small amounts, it's always been in the primary fermenting stage. Don't know if I really understand why I did it that way. I will look into your suggestion of post fermentation. Jerry

 

[sour_grapes]

Just an FYI, as an Italian I have to tell you, Barolo is from piemonte region of Italy, not France.

Hey, who knows, perhaps he has a bottle from somewhere between 1796 and 1814.... (you know, when Piemonte was part of France).

 

[NorCal]

I get a lot of tannin (mouth pucker) from new barrels, so much that I need to pull the wine out early. I suspect oak spirals would accomplish the same thing.

 

[Julie]

Thanks Julie. Do you have any thoughts on using a powdered grape tannin or a liquid tannin of some sort? The powdered stuff never seems to dissolve or at least mix evenly. Always find little clumps. Even though I've only ever used very small amounts, it's always been in the primary fermenting stage. Don't know if I really understand why I did it that way. I will look into your suggestion of post fermentation. Jerry

I normally use FT Blanc and I never had an issue with it clumping.

 

[JerryF]

I normally use FT Blanc and I never had an issue with it clumping.

Can I ask what proportions of the FT Blanc that you use ? (i.e. tsp per gal., etc.)

 

[Julie]

1/4 tsp per 6 gallon. I add after fermentation is completed, then about a month before I am going to bottle I will taste to see if I should add any more. Normally I don't. Also, for my juice buckets and fruit wines, I will add tannins prior to fermentation and sometimes after fermentation, I taste first then decide.

 

[britwinemaker]

I opened a bottle of WE Selection Australian Cabernet Shiraz tonight - bottled 10 months ago - and its making my mouth pucker! Starting sg:1.094 finished sg: 0.996 with no tweaks. I was hoping for a smoother, warmer finish myself... ho hum!

 

[Badiali]

Hey, who knows, perhaps he has a bottle from somewhere between 1796 and 1814.... (you know, when Piemonte was part of France).

The French hate to admit it, but a lot of their cooking was borrowed from the piemontese. French royalty would send for piemontese chefs. Many french dishes are actually la cucina alta or high cuisine from piemonte.

 

[sour_grapes]

And I assume we all know about the legend of Caterina de' Medici transforming French cuisine. (Too bad it is not exactly true.)